LGP Workshop #1 per Res. E-5230 11:25 am - 4:33 pm Wednesday, February 1, 2023 | (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) pht2 Eamon Hoffman ET gary holdsworth sdg&e Jeffrey Lu Roderick Hill Prasanth Gopalakrishnan ASE/Kalkitech Hill, Roderick 6502****13 McElvain, Frank Julia A PG&E Brian Seal Rottman, Mary Eva Wang TotalEnergies Saxton, Patrick Abtin Mehrshahi Bagri, Ramandeep Shiela Linao John Berdner Enphase Roni Mejia - SCE Kimberley Chong SDG&E Sky Stanfield Stephan Barsun - Verdant Associates Khoe, Richard Gordon Lum Michael Barigian SCE Cathy Le Iman Niaz Josh Gerber Saeed Jazebi Denise Chan PG&E Francisco Hernandez (ZF2) Jin Noh haga Mandee Figueroa SCE An Tran Adarsh Madhavan Maria Soria/SCE Steve Wurmlinger Stephan Barsun Hutton, Marc Sherise Brad Heavner Regnier, Justin Julia PG&E Alberto Amparan JM Cathy Le (AUDIO PATH) Coldwell, Matthew David Schiada Christian Eder, Fronius USA Sahm White Steve Sherr Tam Hunt GPI phuoc Timothy Williams Adrianna Magallanes-Chacon SDG&E Alex Mwaura Will Wood Frances Cleveland Marc Hutton Robert Nolty CEC Matt Gonzales Sheikh Hassan Steve Letendre, Nuvve Aliaga-Caro, Jose Yi Li SDG&E 6502****25 Abe Flamenco SDG&E Rustom Dessai Brian Lydic - IREC Roger Salas SCE Robert Stanford, Co-Host Christian Eder Ben Ellis Wilfredo Guevara - SDG&E Adam Buchholz Younes, Amin Albert Tapia WEBVTT 1 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:17:09.964 --> 00:17:18.485 Okay, perfect Thank you. Even though they're still like 7 minutes to go, but it's a good time just to get started. 2 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:17:21.034 --> 00:17:21.484 And. 3 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:17:23.704 --> 00:17:26.043 Do we have PG E on the call now? 4 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:17:44.675 --> 00:17:50.075 All right, do any of the utilities I know, uh, who from PG and E is going to be joining. 5 Michael Barigian SCE 00:17:54.635 --> 00:17:59.675 This is Michael bring in from I believe we're expecting Alex more from PG E at a minimum. 6 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:00.305 --> 00:18:01.745 Okay. All right. Thank you. 7 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:04.445 --> 00:18:10.115 And, uh, Brian seal I see you're on, uh, could you test your mic? Please? 8 Brian Seal 00:18:10.655 --> 00:18:11.495 Yeah, can you hear me. 9 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:12.185 --> 00:18:14.195 Yes, we can. Thank you Brian. 10 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:20.584 --> 00:18:25.084 And is a main on the call from Cal advocate's office. 11 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:32.045 --> 00:18:32.315 Huh. 12 McElvain, Frank 00:18:37.654 --> 00:18:42.004 Say, do you want me to pink somebody? Maybe. 13 McElvain, Frank 00:18:44.105 --> 00:18:45.095 Ping. 14 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:18:46.745 --> 00:18:52.535 Yes, please, Frank. Oh, yeah. You you know what I mean? Right? Yes. Okay. 15 Michael Barigian SCE 00:19:04.624 --> 00:19:20.344 Jose, I'm curious, uh, this is Michael, from when the, uh, previous calendar hold was set up for this meeting. I think it was from 12 to 4. was there Webex information on that? Invite cause? I'm curious if folks may be joined, or are joining that Webex. 16 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:19:20.704 --> 00:19:41.674 No, there wasn't and I changed. Well, so, Webex apparently did something weird cause I eliminate when I updated the invite, I eliminated the word hold and then have some Monday. I was still seeing the hold. 17 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:19:41.704 --> 00:19:57.784 Invite being forwarded, which is kind of odd saying that it was technically overwritten. So I'm not sure what happened there, but no, there was that was just a general hold to hold the time. 18 Michael Barigian SCE 00:19:58.624 --> 00:19:59.644 Got it Thank you. 19 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:20:00.004 --> 00:20:00.454 Okay. 20 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:20:11.344 --> 00:20:14.764 And do we have anything from anyone from Iraq on the call? 21 haga 00:20:28.834 --> 00:20:49.354 Hey, good afternoon, uh, caller from the phone in caller from the, uh, 408 area code. If you want to unmute your phone and click star 3 on your keypad, we will That'll raise your hand, get our attention. And then we'll go ahead and you can identify yourself and we can actually change your name and the Webex just. So we're just so. 22 haga 00:20:49.385 --> 00:20:51.035 What do you can identify? Thank you. 23 McElvain, Frank 00:23:55.564 --> 00:23:56.584 Yeah, I mean, how are you doing. 24 Younes, Amin 00:24:00.004 --> 00:24:07.534 Hey, Frank doing quite well we miss you on our team, but, you know, we're happy to see you doing good work with, for energy division. 25 McElvain, Frank 00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:10.924 Nice thing to say, thanks. 26 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:14.374 --> 00:24:15.874 All right. Welcome. I mean. 27 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:20.824 --> 00:24:25.054 So, okay, I think we can get started. 28 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:29.164 --> 00:24:34.264 All right 408 is Cathy. Okay. All right. 29 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:36.515 --> 00:24:44.975 I think we get we can get started, um, just, uh, 1 more time, trying to see anybody from a PG E on the call. 30 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:52.354 --> 00:24:54.844 Okay, see, Matt is on the call. 31 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:24:56.135 --> 00:24:56.525 Matt. 32 Matt Gonzales 00:24:57.905 --> 00:24:59.795 Yeah, I think Alice will be here in just a moment. 33 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:25:00.485 --> 00:25:17.045 Okay. All right. Okay well, he, he won't miss much. I'll get just get started, uh, on the intro. Uh, thank you everybody for joining. Uh, oh, can we move to the next slide? Please Francisco Thank you. 34 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:25:17.465 --> 00:25:38.375 Uh, thank you everybody for joining today's, uh, 1st, workshop per solution. Ea, 230. uh, we have a full agenda next slide Francisco yeah, just a few logistics and announcements. Safety reminder make a note of your surrounding an extra roots. Of course. 35 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:25:39.184 --> 00:25:50.644 If you need any help reach out to, you know, during that call or to an attendee, some workshop logistics, uh, the meeting is being recorded. 36 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:25:52.984 --> 00:25:59.554 Record materials and materials will be posted at the but. 37 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:26:00.664 --> 00:26:20.554 Um, participants are encouraged to ask questions anytime, um, please keep yourself muting were not speaking and do not put the call on hold. Uh, when you do speak, please identify yourself before speaking if. 38 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:26:20.824 --> 00:26:41.824 By phone, use the mute button or your handset and unmute yourself to speak muted by the host press star 6 to unmute to raise your hand press star 3 uh, if you were forwarded the invite and did not receive it directly from, uh, energy division and would like, to be added to. 39 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:26:41.860 --> 00:26:59.525 To the future workshop list uh, please email me. Um, future workshop. Invitees will include participants from the previous workshop. Um, next slide please. 40 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:27:01.774 --> 00:27:13.414 A quick reminder this is where you can find the link to that limited generation profile workshops, next slide. Please. 41 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:27:15.875 --> 00:27:36.395 Today's agenda, we're starting off with our quick intro here. Uh, followed. Oh, this is, um, Francisco. Do you have version 2? This is version 1. yesterday I updated the agenda with the version 2. 42 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:27:37.804 --> 00:27:41.164 But regardless, uh, the order here is, um. 43 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:27:42.755 --> 00:28:03.635 W, W, we're struggling with the introduction. We'll be then moving on to a means presentation followed by Gordon's presentation from, uh, Quito and then Brian seals presentation from every, uh, there should be in the invite, uh, version 2. Uh. 44 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:03.905 --> 00:28:14.495 That shows, uh, the new agenda, uh, then we'll take a quick break 10 minute break and then we'll follow up with the, uh, presentations. 45 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:18.635 --> 00:28:19.355 The next slide. 46 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:20.704 --> 00:28:21.304 Please. 47 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:29.975 --> 00:28:31.565 Francisco next slide please. 48 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:35.284 --> 00:28:54.304 Thank you so, just a quick background here. The resolution 85,230, uh, issued on December 9th last year identified issues that need further discussion. This is just. 49 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:28:54.424 --> 00:29:04.834 Overview, I will not go through all of them. Today. We are discussing sections of the resolution next slide. 50 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:29:07.474 --> 00:29:27.814 This is the, uh, agenda. Has we have the, uh, schedule? Has we have it now? We'll show 1 workshop. 2 will be on February 21st. I will be sending out invites, uh, by the end of the week workshop 3 on March, 14 and. 51 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:29:28.775 --> 00:29:49.385 Workshop or if needed, uh, TBD at the moment, the advice letters are due on May 1st, and I know that seems a long time away, but, uh, you know, time passes sized pretty fast. Um, additionally we are leveraging the smart board, a working group and. 52 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:55.775 This is the list of the smarter board of working group, uh, meetings, uh, next slide Francisco please. 53 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:29:59.914 --> 00:30:16.174 So this is a, um, schedule on when the topics are gonna be, uh, discussed and on what dates, uh, tomorrow's smarter. We're working group meeting will kick off a discussion on top and. 54 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:30:16.624 --> 00:30:26.824 They tend to fight in the previous slide. Um, and, uh, you know, you could, uh, review this on your own, uh, next slide please. 55 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:30:29.194 --> 00:30:50.014 Uh, I will not read everything in here, but these are experts from the resolution section E, has to do with implementation of limited generation profiles, using current, smarter border functions. Um, next slide Francisco and. 56 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:30:50.020 --> 00:30:59.975 Section app has to do with implementing more than 12 limited generation profile dollars per year. So. 57 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:31:01.324 --> 00:31:01.894 Okay. 58 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:31:05.674 --> 00:31:25.264 And, um, next slide please, and basically after this workshop, uh, please email me any topics that you've based on today's workshop and the smart, and we're working group tomorrow. Please email me any topics that need addressing in the future. 59 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:31:25.295 --> 00:31:45.965 For discussions, uh, by February 8, that's just so we can plan for the 2nd workshop, uh, on the 21st right uh, having said that, uh, the next couple of slides are just the background materials on. 60 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:31:46.420 --> 00:32:04.415 15 and 51 of the decision and, uh, what the, uh, issue 9 and maybe we are, but I will not go through them. So, um, all right, so, let's, uh, bring up the 2nd, slide deck. 61 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:32:07.654 --> 00:32:20.584 Actually, uh, I'm sorry, uh, row Francisco. That would be a slight deck identified has number 3. I did not. I forgot to renumber to them. 62 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:32:21.670 --> 00:32:28.595 That would be the slide deck. 3 underscore. 63 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:32:47.644 --> 00:32:52.654 Thank you. And, uh, all right. Uh, I mean, I take it away. 64 Younes, Amin 00:32:53.854 --> 00:33:00.064 All right. Great. Hope everyone can hear me. Okay, thank you. Very much for giving me the time to present again. 65 Younes, Amin 00:33:01.174 --> 00:33:22.294 My name is the main unit I represent the utilities engineer at the public advocate's office, independent ratepayer organization rate pair, advocacy organization that is within the public utilities commission. I gave this presentation about a week ago or so, um, a little over a week ago, and the smart inverter working group and I was. 66 Younes, Amin 00:33:22.324 --> 00:33:43.444 To reiterate it again here, I'm going to go through some sections a little quicker and focus on the results since we've all many people. I'm sure have seen it before. I'll note that this presentation has been slightly updated in particular. The results are a little bit different. They're directionally almost exactly the same, but. 67 Younes, Amin 00:33:43.475 --> 00:33:53.345 Used, um, different data, slightly different data. I'll explain that subsequently as we get through it. So so without, let's go to the next slide, please. 68 Younes, Amin 00:33:55.894 --> 00:34:10.983 Sorry, I guess we should we can stay here, but I should have said on the last slide that the whole point of this presentation is somewhat to quantify the opportunity provided by using 288 values per year in limited generation profiles, relative to 12 values and relative to a single value. 69 Younes, Amin 00:34:13.084 --> 00:34:29.134 And I'll go through this slide extra quick. Uh, but the points in my view of, uh, this whole exercise, based on my, uh, interpretation of the, the relevant, uh, decisions is that, um, or, uh, I guess it's not a decision. It's a. 70 Younes, Amin 00:34:31.415 --> 00:34:48.425 Ruling, but in any case, the point is to interconnect more the ers well, avoiding grid upgrades to allow to export more energy, more power during peak hours again all well avoiding grid upgrades with that. We can, uh, go to the next slide. 71 Younes, Amin 00:34:51.874 --> 00:35:10.834 So, at a kind of theoretical level, the more opportunity that the has to vary throughout the hours of the hours of the day, and throughout the month of the year, the more energy you'd expect to be able to export over the course of the year with a single value as as in a static limit that's that's been used. 72 Younes, Amin 00:35:10.895 --> 00:35:31.985 For if February at noon limits you to to a certain level, that level has applied at all hours and then if you are allowed to break off and export more in March, that's incrementally helpful. If you're allowed to export more at 50 PM that's even more helpful. So, from a very theoretical level, we expect that going from 1 to 12 to 288. 73 Younes, Amin 00:35:32.044 --> 00:35:45.064 Are going to continue to show incremental benefits in terms of the energy exploited over the course of the year and in terms of the power that can be supplied to the grid during any period. But, you know, we mostly care about peak hours a 4 to 9. 0 PM. 74 Younes, Amin 00:35:46.685 --> 00:35:55.955 Reasonably easy to test out this theory, using data from the that are potentially other data sources that could be used, but the ICN data are some of the most readily available. 75 Younes, Amin 00:35:57.784 --> 00:36:18.544 That's exactly what I did. I looked at ACA data and I tested this theory for a relatively small sample of feeders and I think, you know, at risk of of spoiling the whole result of the presentation, of course, going to go into detail on. Exactly. Why I, uh, I'm going to justify this this conclusion subsequently, but in my view, the theory holds up pretty well, the potential. 76 Younes, Amin 00:36:18.549 --> 00:36:39.664 2 of 288 values relative to 12 values is quite significant. There's a lot more power and a lot more energy that could be utilized across the grid. And in the presentation at this Martin verdict working group I made the same 2 recommendations here. We should either do a more systematic study of feeder capacity something like a census of feeders, rather than a small sample here. I used. 77 Younes, Amin 00:36:39.725 --> 00:37:00.815 2 features based on the data I had available and another kind of option would be to simply and the conversation here and say, look, 288 values is so good that we want to just do it. Um, the feedback I got last time was more towards starting with a, and seeing if we want to go to be so. 78 Younes, Amin 00:37:00.904 --> 00:37:14.914 Barking upon a systematic study of fetal capacity I haven't yet received all of the data necessary to actually do that. Um, but the hope is that I can augment this work and perhaps write a follow up in subsequent meetings. I think that's enough on this slide. So, we'll go to the next slide. 79 Younes, Amin 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:37.505 So I'm going to start before I get into the results I'm gonna just provide a graphic of icaay data so that we're all kind of on the same page about what I'm what I'm talking about here, starting with a graph on the bottom. You have them 12 months of the year on the X axis on the Y, axis. You have the integration capacity for generation as measured by the static grid value. That is. 80 Younes, Amin 00:37:37.534 --> 00:37:58.654 Kilowatts has shown here, so it's about 0 to 3 megawatts and megawatt being 1000 kilowatts and for each month of the year you show a single value. That's what's in the oh, sorry each month of the year, you show 2024 values a single day is represented by 1 value for each hour of the day. And you can see that in the in the solid. 81 Younes, Amin 00:37:58.684 --> 00:38:19.774 Black line here for January every day in January. It's kind of lower in the morning. It goes up around noon drops off a tiny bit in the early afternoon. Goes back up and then goes back down. Um, January 1st, January. 2nd, January. 3rd all are going to have the same values, but there's a significant difference between the value at say, whatever that is, say, 60 a m and 10 PM and then. 82 Younes, Amin 00:38:19.834 --> 00:38:40.954 February has its own set of values, March, April and so forth. So, as I said, right now we use a single value, the minimum value in the over the course of the year with a 10% buffer that's shown by the dashed red line, moving to the minimum monthly value, which is what's pretty much previously been discussed. It was discussed in the E50 to 11 workshops. 83 Younes, Amin 00:38:41.464 --> 00:39:02.104 You know, we, we kind of said that the question of 288 values is left for the 5,230 workshops. We're just gonna start with 12 at least. So, that's how the, how the discussion played out. That enables you to move from the, from the dash red line up to the dotted blue line. And then, as you see, you know, in in February, it's exactly the same because February is a limiting value with elimiting. 84 Younes, Amin 00:39:02.435 --> 00:39:23.255 But, in March and April, it's substantially higher in January. It's quite a bit higher too. And in many of these months, every hour of the day, every day of the month, you would be able to export more power than in February. Then the next step would be to move to the purple line, which is the dot dash combination and that's showing monthly hourly values. So you're moving from 1 value to 12. 85 Younes, Amin 00:39:23.259 --> 00:39:44.374 To 288 values, which is 24 times 1224 hours a day times, 12 months per year again, we're retaining the 10% buffer and you see that compared to the other 2 lines you have lots more capacity for exports, um, at many hours of the day. And this is, I should've said this is just 1 example feeder 1 that I selected at random that had a pretty a shape. 86 Younes, Amin 00:39:44.434 --> 00:40:04.864 Visualized pretty well, it's not it's not meant to represent everything and it's certainly not the extent of the data at which I looked. Um, but that said we're going to go through this examples. You can understand the methods a little bit better. Yeah. Sorry. This is at a single node on the feeder to clarify. 87 Younes, Amin 00:40:09.394 --> 00:40:13.594 So this is actually, this is, I think there's some slight differences, but yeah, between. 88 Younes, Amin 00:40:15.515 --> 00:40:25.955 The, and PG E, uh, label their their data at least, but this is a circuit section or a node. So let's go to the next slide. Please. 89 Younes, Amin 00:40:30.545 --> 00:40:49.265 So, under the 12 value, we see an increase in the amount of power. So, at this slide, I'm on this slide. I'm just looking at power from 49 0 PM. Subsequently we'll look at energy too. Um, we see that that power goes up an app from an average value of 1.4 megawatts over the course of the year to 1.9 megawatts over the course of. 90 Younes, Amin 00:40:49.294 --> 00:41:10.414 Year, but we can also see from the visualization that none of the hour 2 hour variation is captured. So there's just visually you can see that there's significant potential that's not captured moving to the 288 value profile. That's the purple dot dash line. We see that that value goes from 1.4 to 1.9 and ultimately to 2.7. so, on this particular. 91 Younes, Amin 00:41:10.445 --> 00:41:31.565 You're seeing a huge increase, almost twice the increase going from 12 to 288, as you saw going from, from 12 sorry? From 1 to 12. and, as I said, last time, in our view, there's potential for many different parties to benefit from this excess capacity. That could be used, depending on how policies are developed. There's certainly potential for ratepayers and developers. 92 Younes, Amin 00:41:31.594 --> 00:41:52.264 Homeowners, et cetera, to all be benefiting from this from the 288 values as compared to 12. I went through that pretty fast. Hopefully, everyone's already seen that before and kind of kind of knows what I'm talking about. I'm happy to go into, um, answer some questions on it subsequently, but let's go to the before we do that. Let's go to the last slide, which kind of sums everything up. I think this is the most critical side. 93 Younes, Amin 00:41:52.894 --> 00:42:13.864 So, the questions I'm trying to trying to answer here are are focused around energy and power. Um, so how much energy does the 12 value unlock over the course of the year? What's the average power? That 12 value is unlocking during the window of of peak demand or peak grid need, which is really 4 to 90 PM. You could really look at any window. You could look at a particular month like. 94 Younes, Amin 00:42:13.895 --> 00:42:35.015 In September, but for the purpose of this analysis, I was looking at 4 to 90 PM across the whole year, every month. And then how did these values compared to how do these amounts of energy and power that can be supplied compared to using a 288 value. And then, for reference, how do they compare to the single current limit? So, in order to do this, I used. 95 Younes, Amin 00:42:35.224 --> 00:42:56.164 40 sections, so here I have the right terminology down. Um, uh, actually, this slide is outdated. Um, unfortunately, but the data here do represent that result. There is a, a slightly better 1 that didn't, um, seems like it didn't get sent around. Uh, anyway, in in case, the data shown here represents. 96 Younes, Amin 00:42:56.825 --> 00:43:17.225 40, um, 40 seconds 20 from sdg 20 from PG E for PG. E. I had data for each whole feeder and I took this section of the feed of the highest capacity. The idea being that that, um, represents, is the closest representation of what could be interconnected across the whole feeder. If you. 97 Younes, Amin 00:43:17.344 --> 00:43:38.314 If you were choosing locations based on where that capacity ends up for it was just based on the availability. Um, and we see a significant number of Google ad hours that could be exported in all scenarios as well as a significant amount of of power. That could be hosted on these 40 lines. It could be exported. 98 Younes, Amin 00:43:38.764 --> 00:43:59.524 During critical hours, 49 PM, and that March is up for 120 megawatts to 190 megawatts to 240 megawatts with the current limit 12 value and 288 value respectively. When I showed this previously, I had a more heterogeneous sample. Um, and I emphasized that the actual values presented were not. 99 Younes, Amin 00:43:59.645 --> 00:44:20.555 Useful because it wasn't entirely clear what they represented and only the relative ratio is showing the right were useful since I've updated it now, it's pretty clear that we're looking at 40, you know, somewhat random feeders, not totally random sorry. Sections of meters and these average power values. 100 Younes, Amin 00:44:20.794 --> 00:44:26.524 A sense for what could be hosted on an average set of 40 feeders. If you divide those values by 40, you get, you know. 101 Younes, Amin 00:44:27.994 --> 00:44:48.184 3 megawatts per feeder at the current limited about 6 megawatts per feeder with 288 value during those peak peak hours, you can actually take a look at those and, um, and understand those roles. But, but it does make the most sense to focus on scale in my view, the energy and power ratios. That's what we focused on last time. And we see. 102 Younes, Amin 00:44:49.174 --> 00:45:10.114 Based on the data I had last time, it went up from a 100 to 150 to 200 using the different data set that I use. This time. We go from 100 to 160 to 200, um, using the data set. I had subsequently sent that did not make its way into the presentation right now. It goes from 100 to 150 to 190, um, slight differences. 103 Younes, Amin 00:45:10.145 --> 00:45:31.235 Between all these numbers, but but directionally very similarly you're seeing about 50% increase moving from 1 to 12 and about 100 increase moving from 1 to 288. that's the whole presentation since it in kind of the interest of having everything on the record I think, in my view what was discussed last time after I gave this presentation. 104 Younes, Amin 00:45:31.774 --> 00:45:51.484 No, 1 seemed to really find the result surprising. Everyone said yeah, this makes sense. We believe that there would be more hosting capacity or more ability to export energy and power under the more differentiated. Um, I specifically remember, you know, hearing feedback from some of the, that they were not surprised at all by these results. 105 Younes, Amin 00:45:52.420 --> 00:45:56.885 Please correct me if, uh, you know, I, I use please correct me if if you see things differently. 106 Younes, Amin 00:45:58.084 --> 00:46:08.974 And I, I think I also heard feedback from other parties to the proceeding that these results were reasonably compelling to them. Uh, so I, you know, that's not to say that. 107 Younes, Amin 00:46:10.774 --> 00:46:21.634 We should shut down the conversation here. People feel otherwise, but I, I do believe that the kind of started the conversation was that the results make sense and they are pretty compelling um, with that, I'm going to stop. 108 Roger Salas SCE 00:46:31.684 --> 00:46:50.134 I mean, this is Roger from, thank you for the presentation, I think is good. Um, I, I think 1 thing to consider, though, is that there's a balance between safety and what you can do with this. I was throwing in the log is, um, I'm gonna say. 109 Roger Salas SCE 00:46:50.254 --> 00:47:11.374 Discussion us, hey, you can drive a lot faster to get to a place faster and you reduce you reduce time. You spend driving which the benefit. But that isn't that needs to be balanced with the, with the safety of actually driving faster and seems to me that in this analysis here you have only looked at. 110 Roger Salas SCE 00:47:11.379 --> 00:47:16.264 1 side without looking at the other side, and both need to be taken into account. 111 Younes, Amin 00:47:17.494 --> 00:47:32.494 Yeah, that's right. The, the point of this analysis was was really to educate the benefit side of a cost benefit analysis. I don't really have the, the data or a, you know, a methodology in mind for how how I could estimate that cost. Um, so my thought was that we bring the benefit to the table and then we can. 112 Younes, Amin 00:47:32.554 --> 00:47:43.864 Look at that, and start looking at the cost, um, for comparison. I also saw I saw a question. I guess it's not really a question for me. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna ask that right now. 113 Younes, Amin 00:47:46.264 --> 00:47:47.044 Or answer it, I mean. 114 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:47:50.134 --> 00:47:52.324 So, uh, before we go on, uh. 115 Sky Stanfield 00:47:52.324 --> 00:47:53.734 I have my hand up. I'm sorry. 116 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:47:54.274 --> 00:48:10.594 Oh, yeah uh, there were a couple questions in the chat box and, um, 1 was from Ronnie maheia Edison. I mean, you refer to the theater profile, but our understanding is the. 117 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:27.454 Performed at the 3 phase note level, can you clarify? And the next 1 was from Alex? What we also asked was how do rate pairs benefit question mark. 118 Younes, Amin 00:48:27.694 --> 00:48:31.714 Yeah, so I think I asked answered ronnie's question, but I'll, I'll just reiterate it again. 119 Younes, Amin 00:48:31.749 --> 00:48:40.684 Here, so so, make sure we got it, which is that I erroneously refer to the fetus. These are looking at section samples on different feeders um, are node values on different Peters. 120 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:48:41.584 --> 00:48:52.894 And, uh, then I know, uh, Tam also had his hand up and then sky and Tim also, uh, wrote a comment from perspective right? Parish. 121 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:48:52.924 --> 00:49:03.814 Benefit from higher set no extra distribution cost and that could be quite a substantial benefit but, uh, go ahead. Tam, and then Skype. 122 Tam Hunt GPI 00:49:04.984 --> 00:49:13.564 Thank you. Good morning, Tam. Um, we're diving in a bit late on this technical discussion so I've got a few questions. 123 Tam Hunt GPI 00:49:14.074 --> 00:49:34.834 Hopefully, you don't mind, um, you know, at 1st, blush, this looks pretty exciting, because, you know, it's clear this is a lot more potential, uh, at no or limited extra costs to rate pairs. Um, if all parties agree and that's of course, a big if, but let me just ask. So, I mean, you mentioned your view. 124 Tam Hunt GPI 00:49:35.224 --> 00:49:55.984 This new analysis is that the 40 circuits are are nodes are line sections in this case are more representative of the, and PG E systems. What would it take to firm that up to make those utilities, you know, comfortable with this being a good sample and then. 125 Tam Hunt GPI 00:49:56.374 --> 00:50:00.694 2nd, why did you not do an, uh, analysis also? 126 Younes, Amin 00:50:01.774 --> 00:50:17.434 Yeah, so, um, I just did it based on the IC data that I had on hand and that will happen to be and PG E data I, at at the last, um, time I talked about this. I, I think kind of at the end we discussed that. I. 127 Younes, Amin 00:50:18.304 --> 00:50:38.584 I'm planning to do a, basically a census get as much line data or ideally all of the line data from all of the utilities and repeat the analysis. Whether or not that will actually be possible is still to be determined. Um, but, you know, 40 is not a great sample size. It's relatively small. Um, and this is not not say, it's not gonna be statistically significant. 128 Younes, Amin 00:50:38.649 --> 00:50:49.084 It's not a representative sample, so you can't really assume that these will hold across PG E sdg and certainly territory, but they are at least more representative than what we had last time. 129 Tam Hunt GPI 00:50:49.894 --> 00:50:59.734 Yeah, I guess a quick follow up. So, in terms of doing the, the full, um, grids analysis, um, do you have the resources to do that? And it's so, what's your timeframe? 130 Younes, Amin 00:51:02.044 --> 00:51:20.344 Yeah, so resource wise is not particularly challenging. The question is, uh, data availability from the, um, I'm very much hoping to have that by the 3rd workshop. Um, ideally, it would be even even sooner. Um, uh, so, hopefully somewhere between, uh, 2 weeks in 4 weeks, say. 131 Sky Stanfield 00:51:21.274 --> 00:51:31.114 I mean, you won't be able to just to stephanie's point, you won't be able to run the Edison values for current. You are you using the March data? 132 Sky Stanfield 00:51:33.664 --> 00:51:34.384 You're gonna run those. 133 Younes, Amin 00:51:34.804 --> 00:51:51.304 I haven't gotten data from medicine yet, so I'm hoping that I can get, uh, I think what, what they've suggested is perhaps, um, giving me data for a sample of 570 circuits. The data they've rerun. Sorry? 570 s, something like a 6 but a 6 is a pretty good sampling. Yeah. 134 Sky Stanfield 00:51:57.155 --> 00:51:58.475 So, Tim are you done. 135 Tam Hunt GPI 00:51:58.475 --> 00:51:59.855 Yeah, I'm done. Yeah, thank you. Go ahead. 136 Sky Stanfield 00:52:00.155 --> 00:52:00.545 Awesome. 137 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:52:02.344 --> 00:52:03.634 Francis. 138 Sky Stanfield 00:52:05.134 --> 00:52:22.984 So, I have, um, thank you for putting these together and I don't have, um, questions about the analysis so far, but I have 2 additional comments that go into this and at 1st I want to acknowledge Roger, that we obviously do need to talk about, you know, the safety. 139 Sky Stanfield 00:52:23.015 --> 00:52:44.135 You've identified them, we're going to get into that with your presentation. Um, but the, I think there's 2 things to 2 that are additionally important to take into account. When we look at the comparison between doing 12 versus 24 or 12 weeks, is 288, depending on how you think about it. And that is that the 1st piece is that I don't. 140 Sky Stanfield 00:52:44.164 --> 00:53:05.134 Think we need to think about what's actually doable from the D, our applicants perspective from a system design and finance standpoint and what technologies will be used. I think it's going to be again. I don't have enough market data or rates data to verify this. So, I want to say that upfront. 141 Sky Stanfield 00:53:05.854 --> 00:53:24.004 Doing a 12 value month to month profile seems to me to be a lot more of an investment, um, of building capacity that essentially won't be utilized for other parts of the year. And we'll probably be on a PV only scenario essentially. 142 Sky Stanfield 00:53:25.174 --> 00:53:46.024 Well, maybe the ability to capture the value of energy storage since it's, it's not long duration that we're talking about. Here I think, makes the, the likelihood potentially makes the likelihood that 12 the 12 month profiles will actually be developers will seek to do that. 143 Sky Stanfield 00:53:46.205 --> 00:54:07.265 Could be less again, we'd need numbers to really verify that, whereas the 24 hour profiles, when they're likely to line up with incentives are already in existence, especially now with the new 3.0, and it will to take advantage of energy storage capabilities to curtail. 144 Sky Stanfield 00:54:07.954 --> 00:54:28.474 Or essentially charge the storage during the low, um, capacity hours, and then discharged during the high value hours. Um, so, in addition to just looking at the potential for additional power, energy and power, I think we also need to keep in mind that there's different sort of economic. 145 Sky Stanfield 00:54:28.504 --> 00:54:49.624 Scenarios on what would be actually feasible to do, depending on whether you're looking at a 24 hour or a 12 month. So that's my 1st comment. And I'd be interested to hear if others have thoughts on whether that's right or wrong, or how we would kind of capture the difference in terms of actual system design for those 2 different. 146 Sky Stanfield 00:54:49.655 --> 00:55:10.715 Types of scenarios and then the last comment I had was just there was a question about how do we get to ratepayer benefits so this is potential additional capacity. But whether rate pairs are going to benefit is a question, and I, I want to emphasize that the there isn't a. 147 Sky Stanfield 00:55:10.804 --> 00:55:31.894 A whole economic analysis that could go into whether it pairs are benefiting based on either current rate schedules, or those, that haven't yet been structured, but there will be no repair of benefit at all possible. If we don't allow this to happen. Rule 21 doesn't set the rates. 148 Sky Stanfield 00:55:31.930 --> 00:55:53.015 it does is enable the ability of a project to do this while avoiding the upgrades and it will be impossible to do this unless we allow it three hundred and twenty one to avoid those upgrade costs so the ability to capture for rate pairs to capture the benefits may come through the different rate structures that are set up but they won't be able to capture 149 Sky Stanfield 00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:57.184 Any benefit if we don't actually enable it through the interconnection process. 150 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:56:02.555 --> 00:56:04.505 Thank you Scott. 151 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:56:05.914 --> 00:56:26.434 People branches. Oh, sorry. I just wanted to read some of the chat comments. Uh, Francis, you said, what are the utility costs related to only to implementation, but possibly put pen damage and for improving safety, if 288 values are used. 152 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 00:56:27.244 --> 00:56:45.034 And then, uh, Steven, uh, barson, uh, just wanted to note that se is updating the maps on a rolling basis. So please make sure you use only segments that have been updated and sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. Francis. 153 Frances Cleveland 00:56:45.454 --> 00:56:48.064 Okay, yeah, I'm picking up actually, on what I've. 154 Frances Cleveland 00:56:48.094 --> 00:57:09.214 Put into the chat if we do a cost benefit analysis, uh, not including at this point, right? Payers or rates or tariffs, or anything like that. Um, we would need to know the other side of the equation. Uh, and I'm, I don't know. 155 Frances Cleveland 00:57:09.274 --> 00:57:30.184 If you would do this kind of analysis, or whether it would have to be up to the, but I think we would need the costs. Um, not only for sort of implementing 288, which wouldn't need to have a little more technology. 156 Frances Cleveland 00:57:30.395 --> 00:57:51.215 Capabilities, but also, the possible equipment damage, you know, risk of equipment damage as well as the cost for improving safety. Uh, it just coming back to Rogers example if we want it to be a 100. 157 Frances Cleveland 00:57:51.724 --> 00:58:01.264 Safe we would probably either not have cars at all, or require them to drive no faster than 5 miles per hour. 158 Frances Cleveland 00:58:02.945 --> 00:58:23.945 But what we've done instead is said, yeah, we've got some play, you know, areas where we can drive faster some areas where we can drive slower. We put in safety measures. Uh, we have training programs no, no. Drunk driving, you know, et cetera. So, it's not like it's match. 159 Frances Cleveland 00:58:23.974 --> 00:58:45.064 That somehow 12 is the perfect solution. 12 values per year is a perfect solution. I don't even think 288 is a perfect solution. It would be ultimately, on a much more real time basis. You know, here's what it actually we need, you know, in the next 10 minutes. 160 Frances Cleveland 00:58:45.099 --> 00:59:02.884 2 hours, 2 days, whatever, uh, but I think that just having everyone drive at 5 miles per hour is not the answer. So I'm just wondering if anyone is going to do, or can do the cost side analysis. 161 Younes, Amin 00:59:08.494 --> 00:59:23.374 I'll just briefly respond to that since you said my name that I'm not planning to and don't really have an idea of how I would even begin with the cost side analysis. I think that requires a lot more of the expertise that the utilities have in terms of, uh, you know, their their equipment and safety and and so forth. 162 Frances Cleveland 00:59:25.954 --> 00:59:41.494 so then maybe my question and maybe it would be worthwhile for later presentation but i'll i have to leave for an meeting soon uh so maybe it's more to roger and pg e and and 163 Frances Cleveland 00:59:42.214 --> 00:59:48.064 Uh, can you come up with an equivalent cost side of the equation? 164 Tam Hunt GPI 00:59:51.785 --> 01:00:12.455 Can I chime in very quickly on this? Um, just to make sure I understand was being presented here. I thought the, the premise was of a means presentation was that go into this different algorithm, um, for calculating that you'd get essentially an unlocking of higher. 165 Tam Hunt GPI 01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:24.004 Ltv potential without as additional safety risks. So I know that's not established yet but isn't that the premise? So there wouldn't be additional costs if the calculations are, in fact, correct? 166 Younes, Amin 01:00:25.744 --> 01:00:33.664 I can jump in and then pass it to the I think the premises that no upgrades are required. Um, but the have kind of stated many. 167 Younes, Amin 01:00:33.694 --> 01:00:54.484 Times in previous workshops that they view the profiles is higher risk that you're kind of pushing away, more of that margin. So they might expect or they have kind of said they would expect to see more potentially more equipment, damage, more safety issues. So, I think that's what we're talking about, and it's not something that, you know, that I have anywhere near the data to quantify, but I'll, I'll hand it over to the utilities at this point. 168 Tam Hunt GPI 01:00:55.114 --> 01:01:15.874 Can I follow up on that then? So, and so, in terms of going to 208 values, um, you know, we could use different algorithms right? And get different numbers. But if the premise isn't unlocking more potential with the same level of risk, um, how much benefit are we actually unlocking? Right? Because if the utilities come back and say, well, it's gonna cost you 10 times more. 169 Tam Hunt GPI 01:01:16.144 --> 01:01:20.614 To ensure safety at this higher level. What's the actual net benefit? Right? 170 Frances Cleveland 01:01:22.084 --> 01:01:30.544 Yeah, that's why I'm asking about the cost side because I think that's what we're missing. We're, we're missing the ability to compare the 2. 171 Tam Hunt GPI 01:01:44.224 --> 01:01:45.754 Maybe utilities can chime in on that. 172 Regnier, Justin 01:01:48.065 --> 01:01:50.825 I think, uh, it might have been speaking. 173 Roger Salas SCE 01:01:56.254 --> 01:02:15.184 Sorry, I was on mute here. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, I think there's there needs to be a better understanding. This is Roger uh, as to what needs to be, um, evaluated. Um, it it's, I mean, the, the issue here is, is that, uh, we're trying to mitigate or or. 174 Roger Salas SCE 01:02:15.305 --> 01:02:36.065 Not, you know, if everything worked, I ideally write everything lined up perfectly there will be no increase cost right? Because we just basically follow the IC profile. Um, you know, I think as proposed here. And in that premise, there will be no need for, you know, system upgrades, um, and things like that. 175 Roger Salas SCE 01:02:37.504 --> 01:02:57.454 However, you know, the, the issue that we're having, is that in reality not not not. Everything's perfect as, as, you know, propose here and in our grid is gonna change changes on changes in an hourly basis. What happened today is another is that a guarantee? What's going to happen tomorrow? Um, there's, there's some. 176 Roger Salas SCE 01:02:57.515 --> 01:03:17.585 Much flexibility and flexibility in our grid that things change and so, um, so so that's really the issue. Is that how do you, you know, how what is how is that? We are going to ensure that go into more granular level. It still is still mean guarantees that we have a safety. 177 Roger Salas SCE 01:03:18.814 --> 01:03:38.974 The safety of the grid stays in other words, things like, if some, some, some, you know, customer decide to to, to do something for that particular day, like, shut down, for instance, or reduce operations load went down. How do we prevent that? These limited generation profile for that hour, or for that day. So I want to create safety problems. 178 Roger Salas SCE 01:03:39.814 --> 01:03:43.894 There's a lot of variables here and I think that's what's making us up very nervous. 179 Frances Cleveland 01:03:46.054 --> 01:04:00.484 And I think that's what I, I think we need to get a better handle on or we're just going to be talking in circles, uh, because there may be other requirements, for instance, um, monitor the, the. 180 Frances Cleveland 01:04:01.265 --> 01:04:21.575 At least the voltage levels, or get information for particularly the larger systems, more situational awareness, and then modify settings based on situational awareness whether it's local or utility instigated. 181 Frances Cleveland 01:04:22.174 --> 01:04:43.234 Um, you know, none of it is going to be implemented, you know, today, or tomorrow, but maybe, you know, in a year or so but we need to get an understanding of what is needed in order to mitigate any safety or the increased safety risks. You know, should we have everyone. 182 Frances Cleveland 01:04:43.265 --> 01:04:48.335 Continue to drive at 55 miles per hour, rather than 65 or 75. 183 Roger Salas SCE 01:04:50.614 --> 01:05:11.434 Yeah, that's right and I think, in the presentation will have a slide that sort of hopefully takes us through that roadmap and I think we we want to get there, but I think we want to get there with the right technology. So that we can ensure great safety at the same time, maximize the benefits, but ensure safety. I suppose that she's looking. 184 Roger Salas SCE 01:05:11.465 --> 01:05:12.125 The. 185 Frances Cleveland 01:05:12.755 --> 01:05:21.125 So time based, you're saying, over time, you will be able to reach 288 without a decrease in safety. So. 186 Roger Salas SCE 01:05:21.665 --> 01:05:32.135 That's the goal, right? I mean, the goal is to maximize, you know, I think with the tricks are fully on board to maximize these systems, but we have to do it. 187 Roger Salas SCE 01:05:32.589 --> 01:05:45.814 Without increased compromise safety, and we were proposing a roadmap in our deck. Hopefully we can have good discussions there because we want to get to the same place. We just want to do it safely. 188 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:05:52.264 --> 01:05:53.314 Thank you. 189 Frances Cleveland 01:05:53.314 --> 01:05:54.244 That discussion. 190 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:05:56.224 --> 01:06:08.014 I just wanted to note that, uh, Gary, um, has had his hands up for a while. And then Robert, I mean, has his hand up and then Frank. 191 gary holdsworth sdg&e 01:06:09.904 --> 01:06:30.394 Thanks, so I apologize. My video doesn't seem to be working. Otherwise I would have it on. Um, this is not to this is to kind of build on the benefits to rate pairs point, made earlier by a few people in clay sky and I think, I mean, and not to diminish anything in there. I don't necessarily dispute that there are benefits there. 192 gary holdsworth sdg&e 01:06:31.264 --> 01:06:50.524 But if we're talking about, you know, potentially doubling the amount of available energy that can be essentially used by, uh, you know, the operators of these facilities to either increase the revenue stream or to. 193 gary holdsworth sdg&e 01:06:51.965 --> 01:07:12.515 Load otherwise, it would not be offset, you know, there is a revenue component here and we may be I may be talking at a turn just because I'm not a procurement person. But it seems to me that either the programs or may, or may not allow for or pay for. 194 gary holdsworth sdg&e 01:07:12.814 --> 01:07:32.974 Additional energy or power, if they, if they do, then that's probably a benefit to developers as well but or operators of the units. But if they don't, it seems like there's some uncapped benefits there that could be occurring to the operators of these units. Just a thought. 195 gary holdsworth sdg&e 01:07:35.434 --> 01:07:35.914 Thank you. 196 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:07:43.264 --> 01:07:49.204 Thank you for waiting uh, Gary, um, next up, uh, Robert. 197 Robert Nolty CEC 01:07:50.824 --> 01:07:59.224 Yeah, hi, um, my question is kind of related to the costs, but, uh, getting down to the details of how the was calculated. 198 Robert Nolty CEC 01:07:59.254 --> 01:08:20.374 My understanding is, there's mainly 2 parts of the, you don't want currents to get too high so that it damages cables and Transformers. And the other is that Power's not allowed to float backwards through a substation Transformer. And, uh, I think from. 199 Robert Nolty CEC 01:08:20.404 --> 01:08:40.775 I've heard if, uh, if a transformer or fire is over current, a small fraction of the time, it doesn't just immediately fail. So if you were overhead a few hours a year, that wouldn't damage anything. And I've never really understood the reverse power flow. 200 Robert Nolty CEC 01:08:41.528 --> 01:08:49.653 Strength is reverse power flow impossible or is reverse power flow a disaster or is it a mild inconvenience? 201 Roger Salas SCE 01:08:59.104 --> 01:09:19.534 I, I can speak a little bit on that. Robert, that that is actually another way is calculated. Um, at a, at a very high level there's 4 values of I see that are calculated based on thermal limits, based on steady state, voltage, uh, power quality. 202 Roger Salas SCE 01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:40.654 And in voltage fluctuations and protection, um, and the minimum of those is is what's determined to be the, the IC value uh, there's an element or reverse powerful, but that's only from the substation low site to high side baskets. We don't want. 203 Roger Salas SCE 01:09:40.774 --> 01:10:01.804 Or, to the guy, so, grid, or to the higher level of voltages. Um, but, um, the way you describe it uh, it's, it's, it's not mostly not us. Not necessarily. The way I see is calculated. I see. I say it doesn't look at, uh, service Transformers or primary or excuse me a secondary is primary is only done in the primary. 204 Roger Salas SCE 01:10:02.014 --> 01:10:04.714 Side of the distribution rate, so just a little bit about. 205 Robert Nolty CEC 01:10:06.215 --> 01:10:07.085 Okay, thanks Roger. 206 Alex Mwaura 01:10:17.104 --> 01:10:20.794 This is Alex, uh, from PG E just to add on that. 207 Alex Mwaura 01:10:24.305 --> 01:10:43.625 The 1 issue that happens is when you when you're using to analyze mainly screen. M, the idea is that these projects can go through what's called a simplified interconnection, which is, which is a fast tracked process initial review a segment review. Mostly initial review. Once you start having power flow. 208 Regnier, Justin 01:10:45.874 --> 01:10:48.994 So, we're coming up to speed. Can you tell us what screen. 209 Alex Mwaura 01:10:50.584 --> 01:10:51.274 Screen Emma. 210 Regnier, Justin 01:10:54.214 --> 01:10:57.034 Yes, you, you just referred to a screen can you articulate what this. 211 Alex Mwaura 01:10:57.034 --> 01:11:05.284 Yeah, this is a this is a screen on initial review. So initial review has screen air through M and M is 1 of the. 212 Alex Mwaura 01:11:05.350 --> 01:11:26.495 Screening, uh, usually used to be a screen, the checks 15% so basically aggregate generation against peak load. And if the threshold, which was 15% before was exceeded, then it meant that the project may need to go through further study. And, uh, recently that screen started using when I see is available. So. 213 Alex Mwaura 01:11:27.244 --> 01:11:30.724 It's currently using or. 214 Alex Mwaura 01:11:30.729 --> 01:11:51.694 The values, so, if your project does not exceed those 2 values, then you pass screen name and it implies that the project could interconnect through the process of simplify interconnection process. Granted, that all the other screens also pass. Uh, so guess what I'm pointing out here is that when you have powerful. 215 Alex Mwaura 01:11:52.205 --> 01:12:12.035 From the low side bus to the high side bus, it means that, you know, you potentially have impacts on the high side of the and the transmission side and that most cases implies that you need to go through additional study. Because those impacts are not analyzed through process doesn't mean you can't have. 216 Alex Mwaura 01:12:13.054 --> 01:12:18.364 From the low side back to the high side, but it just means that the impacts of those that powerful needs to be studied. 217 Tam Hunt GPI 01:12:19.054 --> 01:12:23.434 And used to be clear Alex, by I just want to study that can be stepping on a review right? 218 Alex Mwaura 01:12:23.434 --> 01:12:33.934 Can be supplement, or you typically is going to be detailed study, because based on our current study process, we don't have an opportunity for transmission protection and transition planning folks to look at projects during the. 219 Alex Mwaura 01:12:34.295 --> 01:12:46.145 Process because the timing is, uh, is is quite tight so whenever these reverse float to the transmission system, it usually triggers a detailed into connection steady process. 220 Tam Hunt GPI 01:12:47.255 --> 01:12:55.295 It isn't screen endow designed for that for most fast track processes where it can be used to study the, uh, additional issues that. 221 Tam Hunt GPI 01:12:55.354 --> 01:12:57.064 Make them up if he fails train, em. 222 Alex Mwaura 01:12:58.084 --> 01:13:08.644 So, for the power flow to the transmission screen N, is designed to identify the potential of that powerful but it's not designed currently to study the impacts of that. 223 Tam Hunt GPI 01:13:13.264 --> 01:13:15.034 I'm going to reach out to you offline on that. Thank you. 224 Alex Mwaura 01:13:15.364 --> 01:13:16.414 Okay, sounds good. 225 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:13:22.805 --> 01:13:31.145 Oh, right. Um, I mean, still had his hands up, but I'm not sure if that's just leftover or whether, I mean, you wanted to say something more. 226 Younes, Amin 01:13:31.535 --> 01:13:31.775 Yeah. 227 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:13:32.225 --> 01:13:32.405 We. 228 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:13:32.765 --> 01:13:33.335 To Frank. 229 Younes, Amin 01:13:34.115 --> 01:13:38.015 It is not just left over. I wanted to respond to something previously said not. 230 Younes, Amin 01:13:39.844 --> 01:13:57.634 Well, in any case, I'll just jump into it, but following from what what sky was saying about great peer benefit, what Alex asked and then I think Gary had talked about that as well. I just wanted to kind of state or expand upon what I, what I meant with that. It's Cal advocate's perspective that repairs stand to benefit. 231 Younes, Amin 01:13:58.779 --> 01:14:19.924 Is pretty much sky said perfectly it depends on rate structure and that's that's really outside the scope of this proceeding, whether or not repairs do benefit, but I'll just add a little bit to how we kind of conceptualize that benefit. So, if you imagine that, we have a say, a 2 megawatt storage system on the distribute storage unit on the distribution system has a reasonably low margins. 232 Younes, Amin 01:14:19.985 --> 01:14:41.075 Cost of operations say, 70 dollars per megawatt hour that's limited to 1 megawatt based on values. It can only export 1 megawatt, but clearing that 2nd megawatt could reduce demand or it could be. And then that could result in a lower market wholesale price in an hour. 233 Younes, Amin 01:14:41.314 --> 01:15:01.894 With a very high marginal costs, you know, we see prices of we've seen 2000 dollars, I think, as a cap we've seen that a few times certainly up in the much more than 770 dollars per megawatt hour and that benefit will accrued to potentially accrue to rate parents as as lower procurement costs for the energy from the utilities flows down to the rate pairs. And of course, that's a benefit to the storage owner. 234 Younes, Amin 01:15:03.454 --> 01:15:15.754 Who can sell that energy to whoever it is they're selling it for, uh, at, you know, at more than it costs them to operate it. And, um, that is, that is the benefit they would get. So I'll stop there. 235 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:15:16.654 --> 01:15:23.344 All right, thank you, man. Uh, just wanted to read a few before we move out to Frank comment from. 236 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:15:23.405 --> 01:15:44.525 Sam white, uh, these results are very encouraging. Can you confirm whether the current limit we use reflected the PB profile 10 0 am to 40 PM min, used for interconnection. If not, what would be appropriate to add has an analysis. Uh, I mean, you. 237 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:15:44.529 --> 01:16:05.674 Good question it did not include the PV profile. I said, so it's a smarter way of working group or forgot to reiterate that here that would impact the energy comparison, but likely not the power comparison since PB would not generate much during. 238 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:16:05.825 --> 01:16:19.775 4 to 90 PM, accounting for profile would be a bit challenging, but maybe feasible. Uh, Sam white responded couldn't be. 239 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:16:19.804 --> 01:16:30.004 Safety functions of smart inverters mitigate the risk of excess export. If the line profile doesn't match reality at any time. 240 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:16:33.274 --> 01:16:51.544 Michael berrigan from, uh, responded to Sam. No, the smart burgers would only be aware of the voltage and current at their location while criteria violations could be caused on upstream or downstream equipment and or lines. 241 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:16:52.594 --> 01:17:12.964 Um, you Lee, uh, I'll just go in order, uh, France's, uh, road, situational awareness, including meter data. Exclamation could be used to transmit more real time data whenever a safety issue, or. 242 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:17:13.474 --> 01:17:34.204 Uh, at Sam, to my knowledge, uh, smarter burger has the ability to monitor the output of the generation. Not the export um, Francis, uh, comment in the smart inverter operationally operationalisation working group. 243 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:17:34.805 --> 01:17:52.835 We're focusing on situational awareness at the PCC. This may require a longer timeframe, but I still contend that data could be used for some data right away uh, from my, uh, uh, CE. 244 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:17:52.864 --> 01:17:55.654 Frances, uh, se. 245 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:17:55.895 --> 01:18:16.805 Hey, my system takes reads at 15 to 60 minute intervals. The data's stored, and then upload it to back end systems and batches during the evening. So, even though rates are taken has passed as every 15 minutes, our systems don't receive the data more than 1. 246 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:18:16.834 --> 01:18:37.954 A day, and my data is meant for billing and is currently far from a real time operational tune tool. Uh, Sam, white, uh, regarding ratepayer benefits says there are 2 primary avoided costs 1, substantial reduced capacity, upgrade. 247 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:18:38.014 --> 01:18:59.074 Required to serve load 2, marginally reduced generation cause where Jen facility output can be optimized. Uh, Brian at Michael. I think we should go back to this discussion to join. The presentation is real time. 248 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:18:59.109 --> 01:19:13.444 Necessary to catch whether short term violations have occurred and take action. Maybe not. Uh, Sam did you have any further questions, or your questions answered? 249 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:19:16.384 --> 01:19:17.584 You're still on the line. 250 Sahm White 01:19:17.944 --> 01:19:23.044 Hi, thank you. Um, they were partially answered. I, I think that the. 251 Sahm White 01:19:24.605 --> 01:19:45.635 Smart inverter, um, capabilities being able to mitigate, um, uh, the risk is, you know, it is still open. Um, my recollection is the smarter vendors are already capable, uh, of, you know, monitoring, uh, uh, voltage excursions or, or, uh, current. 252 Sahm White 01:19:45.665 --> 01:20:06.035 Uh, on the grid, so that if they're contributing to that, you know, along with anything else, which is, uh, you know, on the line section at the same time, um, uh, then they would automatically, uh, uh, connect to modify what they're doing. And we're actively working on operationalize and the. 253 Sahm White 01:20:06.814 --> 01:20:23.434 Additional functions, which would add to that. That doesn't mean that that it's not under would in any way, be able to eliminate no all risks but it could, um, uh, play a significant role in reducing, um, uh, the degree or nature of some of the risks that that might be imposed. 254 Sahm White 01:20:27.664 --> 01:20:33.514 I apologize, I would need to hop off for a different working group in Frances, uh, in a few minutes. 255 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:20:45.155 --> 01:20:46.175 Okay, thank you. Sam. 256 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:20:49.594 --> 01:20:57.694 All right, we have 2 more questions, and then we should, uh, proceed to the next topic. Uh, Frank, and then, uh, Brian lyric from Eric. 257 McElvain, Frank 01:20:59.284 --> 01:21:09.094 Thanks, Jose. Uh, so I, I wanted to go back to robert's export question and the export question has its roots in in safety. 258 McElvain, Frank 01:21:10.295 --> 01:21:31.385 Partially because energizing a circuit from the distribution side can put workers at risk, but any, any will will energize that circuit. So, uh, the, the question then becomes well, you have to change the, the protection devices. 259 McElvain, Frank 01:21:32.165 --> 01:21:52.535 So that they could withstand, they can recognize when Power's flowing the other way and to protect the circuit the correct way when Power's flowing in the reverse direction. And that costs money, uh, to do that. Uh, so, for me, the question comes. 260 McElvain, Frank 01:21:52.564 --> 01:22:05.374 Down to well, what what is that investment? I think, you know, we have to look at a culture change if we're going to meet resource adequacy requirements in California. 261 McElvain, Frank 01:22:07.115 --> 01:22:27.785 And so we need to look at the possibility. Well, what what is it going to take for the protection systems that we have on the distribution system to be able to allow reverse power flow versus the, uh, the offset uh. 262 McElvain, Frank 01:22:27.814 --> 01:22:47.734 Costs and, uh, additional resource costs and that's a big ask. And so we have to make some simplifying assumptions to, to kind of get our hands around that kind of thing. To me, that's where the ultimate question comes comes down to, uh, to this whole thing. 263 John Berdner Enphase 01:22:58.504 --> 01:22:59.644 You you said that. 264 John Berdner Enphase 01:23:04.324 --> 01:23:05.884 Personnel working on. 265 McElvain, Frank 01:23:10.624 --> 01:23:14.734 I can barely hear you. I did not catch your question. What was that for me? 266 Brian Lydic - IREC 01:23:17.705 --> 01:23:23.165 How the export causes risks to personnel that you started off mentioning. 267 McElvain, Frank 01:23:25.655 --> 01:23:46.625 The, the original paradigm for a worker out in the field was that if he saw he or she saw an open circuit from the source side that they knew the circuit was de, energized the introduction of. 268 McElvain, Frank 01:23:47.764 --> 01:24:05.524 On on what used to be just the load side, causes that circuit to possibly still be energized. You you have to see a 2nd open circuit a 2nd open device to know that that the circuit that you're working on is de energized. 269 John Berdner Enphase 01:24:06.394 --> 01:24:07.264 So. 270 John Berdner Enphase 01:24:08.494 --> 01:24:28.924 For years have had mandatory requirements for protection for open phase detection for frequency, traps, voltage trips. There is also a general requirement that they are not to energize a de energized circuits. So I think. 271 John Berdner Enphase 01:24:29.824 --> 01:24:48.814 I would disagree with your promise also, you know, in all the 547 discussions that I've had with utilities, they say that their, uh, alignment are trained when they're working on line, they ground both sides of whatever they're working on. So. 272 McElvain, Frank 01:24:48.844 --> 01:24:49.894 John John. 273 John Berdner Enphase 01:24:50.704 --> 01:25:02.944 Again, I don't, I would disagree that, um, represents an issue unless it's, uh, participating in an intentional island. 274 McElvain, Frank 01:25:04.114 --> 01:25:11.344 John, I hear ya. I, I think I, I, I miss, I took you down the wrong way. Um. 275 McElvain, Frank 01:25:12.215 --> 01:25:32.075 I'm saying that the whole culture of exporting power, that culture needs to be reworked and and we have to be more open to actually allowing reverse power to, to go out. 276 McElvain, Frank 01:25:32.674 --> 01:25:53.644 I'm supportive of of that device, but it, it has a culture in safety that has to be undone. Uh, and and it goes back to that. So, I, I, I agree with with you it, that part is no longer an issue, but there is a cost to, uh, uh. 277 McElvain, Frank 01:25:53.674 --> 01:25:55.774 Dating protection devices. 278 John Berdner Enphase 01:25:58.115 --> 01:26:19.025 We, we have discussed that, and 1 of the things would be adding intelligence to re, closers, for example. So that they're not just doing voltage blocking, but they're doing synchronized recording that has been discussed. Um, and in general people said it's too expensive. So, until. 279 John Berdner Enphase 01:26:19.054 --> 01:26:40.174 Microgrids intentional islands become commonplace. The general thinking has been well, when that happens, then we will look at adding intelligence to the re, closers in terms of, um, desensitizing protection equipment that that was discussed. It was. 280 John Berdner Enphase 01:26:40.180 --> 01:27:01.325 Controlled by the I use in the 547 requirement and is exactly why there is a C, standardized requirement below point 5 per unit. It is to an event of a distribution fault. It is to cause all the to stop supplying current. So. 281 John Berdner Enphase 01:27:01.714 --> 01:27:19.984 The protection equipment can respond, instead of your desensitizing, the overtime protection. So we have to be a little bit careful about a lot of this stuff has been discussed in detail, um, within 147 and I think. 282 John Berdner Enphase 01:27:21.124 --> 01:27:37.294 Some good stop gap solutions, you know, down the road. Yes, we can do more. And I would agree with you have to probably look fundamentally fundamentally how we're doing protection on the distribution system, and maybe do it differently. I would agree with that. 283 McElvain, Frank 01:27:39.844 --> 01:28:00.394 Well, John, I, I think there's tremendous benefit for what I mean has proposed and, uh, ultimately, I think that's where, where the state needs to go to to have enough resources to, uh, to serve all of the energy in in the state. I. 284 McElvain, Frank 01:28:01.834 --> 01:28:06.454 I think we're more in agreement then then I, I communicated to, you. 285 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:28:10.295 --> 01:28:25.355 All right, uh, thank you, Frank and thank you, John. Um, I think, uh, we need to move on here to the next presentation, uh, by, uh, systems, uh, by, uh, presented by Gordon Gordon. 286 Gordon Lum 01:28:26.975 --> 01:28:28.745 Yeah, hi, everybody can you all hear me. 287 Gordon Lum 01:28:28.894 --> 01:28:29.284 Okay. 288 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:28:30.034 --> 01:28:31.204 Loud and clear. 289 Gordon Lum 01:28:32.134 --> 01:28:49.894 All right. Hi, I'm Gordon. I'm the CEO of systems, and I, uh, authored, uh, on behalf, or with assistance of the, uh, utilities, the, uh, common smart inverter, uh, profile, which is a, um. 290 Gordon Lum 01:28:49.899 --> 01:29:11.044 Document that maps out how you use 2030.5 to meet California rule 21 requirements. So I am very familiar with, um, I am very new to this working group to limit limited generation profiles, work group and the e5230. 291 Gordon Lum 01:29:11.074 --> 01:29:32.134 On Sunday to this today, when i1st read the 288 value requirement, I misinterpreted what that represented. I had thought that the 24 values per month represented 24 different distinct values that changed roughly once. 292 Gordon Lum 01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:53.344 Per day, I did not realize that it represents 24 hour day. He's changing every hour that's repeated for every day in that month. So I think my conclusions that I have on my presentation doesn't change, but some of my scheduling recommendation. 293 Gordon Lum 01:29:53.350 --> 01:30:09.095 Patients and examples may need to change based on the correct understanding of what the 24 hour 288 value requirements actually mean with that, let's go on to the next slide. 294 Gordon Lum 01:30:12.784 --> 01:30:31.414 Okay, the main purpose of my presentation is to answer the 1st question. Do you see sub certified devices already support the e5230 requirements? And my short answer is yes and even though I misinterpreted what, the 24 hour 208 values mean. 295 Gordon Lum 01:30:31.444 --> 01:30:52.564 I think the answer is still, yes, certified devices should be able to support the 830 requirements and the rest of this presentation will go into some of the details and subtleties about those requirements. So, what are the basic requirements of 5,230 as a. 296 Gordon Lum 01:30:52.594 --> 01:31:13.534 2, I triple 823.5 basically, it's to support 2 functions. The phase 3 function 3, which is the limit, maximum active power mode and this function maps to 2035, controlled call, maximum. 297 Gordon Lum 01:31:15.154 --> 01:31:34.864 The 2nd, function that needs to be implemented is phase 3 function, 8, scheduling of power values and, uh, and modes. And this is this, uh, in order to do this, we will be using the inherent scheduling method of 23.5 and how. 298 Gordon Lum 01:31:34.870 --> 01:31:43.475 28 hour formats 24 is per month, uh, feeds into that next slide. 299 Gordon Lum 01:31:47.165 --> 01:32:05.885 So, what are the relevant requirements related to e5230 right now? Um, all devices that are certified must support the, this function maximum W, function and all devices must. 300 Gordon Lum 01:32:07.025 --> 01:32:25.925 Support I truly 20 30.5 rules or event handling and scheduling and devices must be able to store at least 24 events. So, those are the requirements that pertain to the 1930. Uh. 301 Gordon Lum 01:32:27.484 --> 01:32:48.064 What is actually tested during certification is slightly different. See, sub certification does test that the upward maximum W, function is communicated from the server to the device and a device responds accordingly. Um, however. 302 Gordon Lum 01:32:48.189 --> 01:33:09.334 As far as the storage is concerned, the testing actually only tests at the device stores. 7 events, not the required 24 events and these tests are mainly a test of communications. There's also a separate functional test that is conducted. 303 Gordon Lum 01:33:09.484 --> 01:33:30.454 The noodles that uses you all 741 essay essay, 18 test to verify the functionality. So the combination of the communications tests, and the functional test, I believe covers what is required to implement the 5,230. 304 Gordon Lum 01:33:30.515 --> 01:33:31.175 Environments. 305 Gordon Lum 01:33:33.634 --> 01:33:35.404 Okay, um, next slide. 306 Gordon Lum 01:33:39.604 --> 01:33:58.684 So, is the certification sufficient for, uh, testing sufficient for satisfying the 5,230 requirements? As I mentioned earlier? I think the answer is yes the only complication is supporting, whether that's the testing actually can support. 307 Gordon Lum 01:33:59.404 --> 01:34:19.834 288 hour, 24 values per month requirements and my answer is yes, the storage requirements is basically not really, um, doesn't have a direct impact on your ability to schedule 280. 308 Gordon Lum 01:34:19.924 --> 01:34:40.984 It's separate, uh, events, it's mainly used as a buffer such that if the inverter loses communications with the server, that the inverter has buffer enough buffer up enough events, such that it can ride through a communications outage. 309 Gordon Lum 01:34:42.155 --> 01:34:45.605 Um, because the, um. 310 Gordon Lum 01:34:47.585 --> 01:35:02.975 Requires that the, um, be able to support and store 24 events essentially means that the should be able to right through, uh, communication outage of 24 hours. 311 Gordon Lum 01:35:06.004 --> 01:35:06.754 Based on that. 312 Gordon Lum 01:35:07.924 --> 01:35:10.564 Um, let's see. 313 Gordon Lum 01:35:12.335 --> 01:35:13.385 Questions about that. 314 Gordon Lum 01:35:17.554 --> 01:35:19.564 Okay, I think we can move on. 315 Gordon Lum 01:35:25.805 --> 01:35:42.935 I think you go to the next slide. I think I pretty much covered the, the details of that slide. Um, so the rest of this presentation is more on, um, how scheduling and events work in 20, 35, it's more of the. 316 Gordon Lum 01:35:43.114 --> 01:36:04.054 What goes on under the hood in order to schedule an event and this is more informative than anything else. So I'll probably try to go through this quicker since it seems like the topics aren't on the low level details, but it's more on, you know, more. 317 Gordon Lum 01:36:04.205 --> 01:36:25.175 Discussions like you were having earlier so basically, how is scheduling done in 23.5 or 23 or 5 schedule is based on a series of PR control events. An event is basically a, a. 318 Gordon Lum 01:36:25.414 --> 01:36:45.874 Checked that contains the function in this case, the limit real power output function of value. Yeah. What is the limit of that? What is the current value that you want to schedule and a start time and duration? 1 thing to note that the start time. 319 Gordon Lum 01:36:46.594 --> 01:37:07.594 Store time in 2035 is based on basically the number of seconds since 972032.5 does not have a concept of a calendar. So it doesn't know anything about years months dates anything like that. So. 320 Gordon Lum 01:37:07.630 --> 01:37:28.625 In order to schedule something on a daily basis, or on a weekly basis, you would have to schedule individual events with the proper times accordingly. So you can't just say I'm going to create a single schedule that a single. 321 Gordon Lum 01:37:29.014 --> 01:37:49.894 That represents, uh, the value at between 90 am and 10 am, uh, every day, um, you would have to every day, create a new event with the value that corresponds to that exact time. So, uh, this will add more burden. 322 Gordon Lum 01:37:50.105 --> 01:38:11.015 To the, the server that is scheduling these events to schedule them according to your time instead of scheduling them based on calendar time. And the reason why this was done is that there are lots of subtle difficulties for device. 323 Gordon Lum 01:38:11.194 --> 01:38:32.194 Proper calendar time, the device has to know about time zones and daylight savings times and lead years and leap seconds. And these are complications that are difficult for a device to implement. And so. 324 Gordon Lum 01:38:32.404 --> 01:38:41.674 Point 5 chose to use a simple, ambiguous represents representation of time using. 325 JM 01:38:46.295 --> 01:38:48.095 W. B. K. 326 Gordon Lum 01:38:51.634 --> 01:38:52.324 Was your question. 327 Gordon Lum 01:38:59.464 --> 01:39:03.934 Okay, um, I think we could move on to the next slide. 328 Gordon Lum 01:39:07.774 --> 01:39:08.974 So. 329 Gordon Lum 01:39:11.554 --> 01:39:30.874 I was scheduling done in, um, she uses the concept of a program and a D. our program is basically a container of, um, schedules and events and the program can be assigned to any node. 330 Gordon Lum 01:39:31.774 --> 01:39:52.594 The, uh, electrical to topology models, the electric grid as a tree structure, and each node in the grid can represent the different point in the, uh, electrical, uh, system. Uh, there's a note representing the entire system. 331 Gordon Lum 01:39:52.715 --> 01:40:13.715 Uh, the system node, there's nodes representing feeder nodes. Uh, there's nodes representing Transformers, there's nodes representing the service point and so a control can be targeted to any particular node. And that control will affect every device downstream from that node. 332 Gordon Lum 01:40:14.224 --> 01:40:28.054 So, if I want to schedule an event that affects every device on a particular Transformer, I just have to create that event in the program that represents that. 333 Gordon Lum 01:40:32.104 --> 01:40:33.244 Any questions about that. 334 Gordon Lum 01:40:36.394 --> 01:40:38.464 Okay, let's move on to the next slide. 335 Gordon Lum 01:40:41.554 --> 01:41:01.684 So, how does, uh, scheduling scheduling basically work utility server periodically creates a series of control events. These events are added to the program, the, our control list for that particular node. 336 Gordon Lum 01:41:01.714 --> 01:41:22.774 Each event completes a server, removes the Dr control from that list. So it's a very simple operation to schedule events and then clear those events after they've been completed from the client side from the client side the Dr polls, the server. 337 Gordon Lum 01:41:22.839 --> 01:41:29.854 Minimum of every 10 minutes for any changes or additions to the event. 338 Gordon Lum 01:41:31.714 --> 01:41:52.414 If a new event is found the, the DVR scheduled that event for activation, and sends the appropriate, uh, responses to the server to the server, knows that the event was received started completed, canceled or superseded. And when the event completes, the client removes. 339 Gordon Lum 01:41:52.624 --> 01:41:58.654 That events from its list. Okay next slide. 340 Gordon Lum 01:42:03.544 --> 01:42:22.054 So, um, 20, 35 presents a many different ways in order to schedule an event. And, uh, how, uh, which method to use is basically up to the server, um, based on complexity. 341 Gordon Lum 01:42:22.059 --> 01:42:42.274 The resources and how it fits into their into their existing operations the remaining slides I present for options based on my misunderstanding of the 24 hour. 208 value requirement. 342 Gordon Lum 01:42:43.594 --> 01:42:52.024 But, uh, we can go through them anyway, uh, with the caveat that this may no longer apply. So, let's go to the next slide. 343 Gordon Lum 01:42:55.684 --> 01:43:14.224 So the 1st option is basically scheduling a whole bunch of events to be executed in the future. So, in this example, um, basically, uh, you schedule all 288 events at once and, uh, and. 344 Gordon Lum 01:43:14.254 --> 01:43:22.834 Put them on the list and the, uh, will download the entire 288 and act on them accordingly. 345 Gordon Lum 01:43:24.485 --> 01:43:45.245 This can be done, but it requires a lot of resources in order to do this. And if any of those values change or need to be modified, there's a cost to changing and modify already scheduled events. So, yes, you are able to preschedule a large number. 346 Gordon Lum 01:43:45.275 --> 01:44:00.035 In the future, but the risk is that it may be very inefficient if you need to modify those events that have already been scheduled. So, this is scheduling option. 1 let's move on to the next slide. 347 Gordon Lum 01:44:02.884 --> 01:44:12.874 So, scheduling option 2 is to not to schedule so far ahead of schedule head in a schedule events. 348 Gordon Lum 01:44:14.914 --> 01:44:35.374 Shorter timeframe, maybe, you know, daily or weekly or monthly, and basically allows you the flexibility to use your resources as if you need to change something that is already scheduled, has less impact on resources. 349 Gordon Lum 01:44:36.275 --> 01:44:43.925 Future resources that are needed in order to do that. But the disadvantage is that you have to schedule these events much more often. 350 Gordon Lum 01:44:47.855 --> 01:45:06.695 Okay, let's move on to the, uh, the next option. Um, you can also schedule, uh, events on change. Uh, this means that you just schedule 1 event and that event is good until, um, it needs to be updated to a different value. 351 Gordon Lum 01:45:07.445 --> 01:45:25.625 So, this simplifies the amount of resources there's that as needed. Um, and, uh, the drawback is that, uh, if you have, uh, many changes over short period of time, you have to do more work in order to schedule them accordingly. 352 Gordon Lum 01:45:27.664 --> 01:45:47.434 And let's go on to the final slide, which is a 4th option. 4th, 4 option is similar to the production, and that you are scheduling events or changing the event scheduling a new event, only on a change of value. 353 Gordon Lum 01:45:47.974 --> 01:46:09.064 And so this allows you to this method, uh, instead of using events, but just changing their default values is a way of, um, changing values as needed. Um, but the disadvantage is that, since these are not. 354 Gordon Lum 01:46:09.094 --> 01:46:29.974 Events but static values that you cannot reschedule them when you change a default value, you cannot schedule that change you change and if you change the value and the value takes place, right away. And so if a client is pulling for these changes. 355 Gordon Lum 01:46:30.245 --> 01:46:51.245 There will be at least a 10 minute delay before when he realizes that the value has changed before he can implement that. And another disadvantage of this method is that there's no active acknowledgement back to the server that the Dr has actually implemented or recognized the. 356 Gordon Lum 01:46:51.394 --> 01:47:02.464 Ancient values, there's no associated responses when using option 4. so these are the 4 options that I've presented. 357 Gordon Lum 01:47:04.084 --> 01:47:24.604 I think if I had more time, I would have, uh, created a different type of options based on my new understanding of how the 24 hour schedule works. Um, but I think this doesn't change my overall conclusion that existing certified devices. 358 Gordon Lum 01:47:25.209 --> 01:47:37.594 To be able to support the requirements of 24 hours per day and 288 values per year. 359 Gordon Lum 01:47:41.705 --> 01:47:48.545 So, I think that ends my presentation or any questions. Are there any questions. 360 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:47:49.025 --> 01:48:01.865 Alright, thank you. Gordon. Uh, we do have a couple of hands up, but before we do that, I'd like to, uh, read what's on the chat. I think you may have already addressed some of the. 361 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:48:01.869 --> 01:48:22.684 Uh, from Francis, I agree that 235 can meet the scheduling requirements if we are discussing near real times, 15 of scheduled values but 2035 cannot handle 288 events for a whole year from Brian. 362 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:48:23.944 --> 01:48:39.814 I haven't been on smart about a working group calls for a while, so probably missed it. Last time I asked it was not a requirement in California that the, our support at 2035, or it's scheduling features at the local site level. 363 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:48:41.405 --> 01:48:50.075 John, you seen to do this would require uploading a 24 value schedule from the cloud every day. 364 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:48:51.220 --> 01:49:12.155 Is over reliance on communication networks is exactly why the task group develop the concepts of an autonomous recurring schedule under a PCs. 288 dollars schedule could be 8 to under a 288 value. Schedule could be loaded once and would include. 365 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:49:12.394 --> 01:49:33.514 Current on a monthly type of day we can't week day or daily basis uh, from Francis at Brian CEO. Yes, I know communications are required with you use if they are greater than 1 megawatt they may communicate with aggregators. 366 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:49:34.654 --> 01:49:54.364 And may, or may not use 2035, uh, from Alex, uh, our certified gateway in burgers, capable of measuring or talking an export PCCC level value and command. 367 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:49:55.504 --> 01:50:15.784 A different in burger output to maintain a separate scheduled export. Uh, that was a question, but we, before we get to that, I'll finish leaving the chat window, um, from Francis, uh, again and right now the proposal is. 368 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:50:15.819 --> 01:50:32.554 You have the scheduled part of the interconnection agreement, not through any communications, uh, Brian seal at France's things point to that detail. And I'll read up, um. 369 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:50:35.074 --> 01:50:48.904 Brian analytic at Brian and Francis, but also are not leveraging 2030 dot 5 or greater than 1 megawatt systems yet on the some have started. Since last we checked in. 370 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:50:53.404 --> 01:51:13.624 I think had the most accelerated plans to do. So, uh, from Frances are only required to communicate a power control system may or may not be included to manage PC export and import as well as individual. 371 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:51:13.685 --> 01:51:34.385 Are, uh, from prances the Dr system I am most familiar with or greater than 1 megawatt and use 3 for communicating with utilities if so required, uh, from John actually only supports exports limited from all sources. 372 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:51:34.895 --> 01:51:55.925 Or from USS, only for name integrity, uh, from Francis at John, from your perspective PC, as is only expert limited, but the real systems too far more from John. I triple E50 47 this not contemplate the are calling utility. 373 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:51:55.954 --> 01:52:04.864 Servers need to push commands to not the other way around from Brian. Thanks for the updates. 374 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:52:08.674 --> 01:52:28.354 Probably misunderstood what Gordon said earlier. I thought he was saying that e5230 required at scheduling 2030.5 and at the from rustam side, Brian analytic PG E has an active program using 2030. 375 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:52:28.594 --> 01:52:47.824 5 for telemetry, only for greater than 1 megabyte distribution, connected system from Frances, the are polling is less appropriate then publish subscribe and may not be what 1547 we're requiring the new version. 376 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:52:50.765 --> 01:53:10.655 From Justin, there is no procedure path. I'm aware for to command rule. 21 resource or telemetry. Infrastructures will only be contemplated for information at this point. Owner operators are computers are free to use the functionality more broadly. 377 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:53:10.685 --> 01:53:14.525 The owner upgrade the assets, um. 378 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:53:16.384 --> 01:53:21.604 Let's see, uh, from Frances, um. 379 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:53:24.760 --> 01:53:45.665 Okay, I'm almost done from Francis at Justin. I believe requests are allowed, but I'm not sure anyone has implemented them, but they will need to be in the future from John and Justin similar D or is not required to do polling by 547. so, by and large, it does not exist at the level from Alex. 380 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:53:46.175 --> 01:54:02.105 Gordon can answer my question if he likes, but it has been answered within the comments. All right so, 1st thing before we move to the raised questions, uh, Alex, so your question has been answered. 381 Alex Mwaura 01:54:08.914 --> 01:54:10.114 Believe San Jose? Yeah. 382 Gordon Lum 01:54:10.744 --> 01:54:17.194 Yeah, let me, um, take a stab at answering some of those comments that you just mentioned. 383 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:54:17.764 --> 01:54:19.474 Okay, and then we'll move on to. 384 Gordon Lum 01:54:20.314 --> 01:54:25.384 1st of all 23.5 is capable of scheduling way more than. 385 Gordon Lum 01:54:25.390 --> 01:54:45.185 And 288 events, basically a schedule is a list of events on the server somewhere and that the list can be unlimited. So technically, yes, it can schedule greater than 288 events and. 386 Gordon Lum 01:54:46.539 --> 01:55:07.654 Response to John partner, you are correct the requires communications and because communications may be spotty and it could go down. That is a problem with using to control to distribute these values in that reliable communications. 387 Gordon Lum 01:55:07.714 --> 01:55:28.774 And not be guaranteed, and maybe a static method of loading these values into the system is desired. So, I agree with you on that point regarding 23.5 is not a requirement for in. That is correct if you go through an aggregator, the path between the aggregator. 388 Gordon Lum 01:55:28.864 --> 01:55:49.984 And the can be, um, anything, but the path between the utility, and the aggregator is 20, 35 and 23.5 has the ability to convey these schedules to the aggregator and how the aggregator decides to. 389 Gordon Lum 01:55:50.284 --> 01:56:10.864 Those scheduled values down to the is up to the aggregate. It could be 205. it could be proprietary. It could be anything at that point. Um, so those are some of the comments I have some of the questions. I'm sure that there are other questions that were that you had listed in a chat that I have forgotten, but if they're important, I could. 390 Gordon Lum 01:56:11.765 --> 01:56:12.155 As well. 391 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 01:56:16.174 --> 01:56:21.094 Thank you Gordon. All right, so, let's go to you leave Roger and then Brian lyric. 392 Yi Li SDG&E 01:56:23.734 --> 01:56:35.104 Hi, this is, uh, thanks for us presentation. Very, very helpful. And I, I want to kind of just confirm my understanding based. I think maybe your 1st. 393 Yi Li SDG&E 01:56:35.314 --> 01:56:56.194 There was a comment about, you believe, does allow imitation of what was anticipated for 20 5,230 but based on what I'm hearing in your later slide, it seems like implementation of that would require a C sub certify server plus a certified. 394 Yi Li SDG&E 01:56:57.695 --> 01:57:00.995 Install at the level. Is that correct? 395 Gordon Lum 01:57:06.544 --> 01:57:13.594 Contemplates multiple ways of connecting, uh, devices, um, when I say. 396 6502****13 01:57:19.205 --> 01:57:19.625 Oh. 397 Gordon Lum 01:57:24.635 --> 01:57:42.785 We see some architecture contemplate a utility server communicates 20 30.5 to other devices. So yes, there's a 23.5 requirement for the utility server to implement 2035. 398 Gordon Lum 01:57:44.194 --> 01:58:03.244 the connection to the utility server is either directly to or if they choose that path then the dvr client must implement two thousand and thirty five if they choose uh the other alternative 399 Gordon Lum 01:58:03.994 --> 01:58:25.084 To communicate to an aggregator, and then that aggregator communicates to the, um, in that case, the aggregator must use 23.5 to communicate to the server. The aggregator is free to use any protocol. It chooses to communicate from itself. The aggregator. 400 Gordon Lum 01:58:25.089 --> 01:58:45.784 The devices, so the requirements for the D are at the client to implement 2025 is only true if you're if that device is directly connecting to the utility server is connecting through the aggregator. Then. 401 Gordon Lum 01:58:46.954 --> 01:58:59.434 It doesn't need to implement 23.5. it's the aggregator that is going to be implementing the 23 and 5 connection to the utility server. I'm not sure if I directly answer your question, but. 402 Yi Li SDG&E 01:58:59.494 --> 01:59:07.384 I think you did, um, I guess another question I have is that 1, uh, the scenario where it's kind of discussing for. 403 Yi Li SDG&E 01:59:07.390 --> 01:59:27.695 He is mostly talking about the export at the point of PCC back to the system. Right? We're not we're essentially not talking about just the output of generating facility or in the scenario, like a system. So effectively, because there's onsite load. 404 Yi Li SDG&E 01:59:28.804 --> 01:59:49.654 That's why we've been discussing the PCs system we'll have to monitor, sort of the load, like, export across the and calculate, you know, the schedule or profile you will for the actual generator and send it over to the generator to implement. Can you describing this kind of, uh. 405 Yi Li SDG&E 01:59:49.954 --> 01:59:52.324 Approach you are thinking about how that can be achieved. 406 Gordon Lum 01:59:57.214 --> 01:59:57.784 Um. 407 Gordon Lum 02:00:02.135 --> 02:00:22.115 I believe that 11 possible model for communications using, is that at the site, there's a 20, 39, 5, Gateway device that represents, uh, the sum total of the. So there could be. 408 Gordon Lum 02:00:22.119 --> 02:00:43.234 Their devices behind it, but that's at the, uh, there's a single device representing what's happening at the point of calling coupling and I believe that is allowed under. That's like the gateway model. So, instead of having a 2003. 409 Gordon Lum 02:00:43.324 --> 02:00:54.394 5. D. R. the aggregator you haven't at the gateway that represents the PCC for that site. 410 Yi Li SDG&E 02:00:57.904 --> 02:00:59.134 That's helpful Thank you. 411 Roger Salas SCE 02:01:03.154 --> 02:01:21.334 Yeah, yeah so Gordon, just following the same mode. Exactly. That's exactly 11 thing to discuss here. The concept here is that Gateway you just mentioned, I think he's not going to have any communications back to the utility. Um, and so it's really chess at the journey facility itself. 412 Roger Salas SCE 02:01:21.339 --> 02:01:42.484 And that Gateway would have a schedule what is 12 288 or something else that says you, your gateway you must monitor the PCCC and don't allow more than X amount of. 413 Roger Salas SCE 02:01:44.104 --> 02:02:02.404 Megawatts to export the, as an example, we'd be like, just take 1 hour. Let's say 1 hour. The value is 3 megawatts. You can only allow 3 megawatts going not to the grid for that hour. The, the, the gateway must measure continuously measure the PCCC. 414 Roger Salas SCE 02:02:03.665 --> 02:02:21.185 Went up when the values, so so basically through to space or some other measurement, and when the gateway senses that export to the greatest more than 3 megawatts, it needs to go tell the inverters like, hey, you need to reduce because you're going too much. 415 Gordon Lum 02:02:21.635 --> 02:02:21.965 Yes. 416 Roger Salas SCE 02:02:21.965 --> 02:02:24.755 Exactly, and then then he needs to verify that. 417 Roger Salas SCE 02:02:24.789 --> 02:02:36.424 Staying within 3 megawatts and 1 of the biggest questions that we had in our slide, we spend a lot of time discussing. This is whether or not this is a gateway could do that. 418 Roger Salas SCE 02:02:37.744 --> 02:02:39.064 So, maybe you can, you. 419 Roger Salas SCE 02:02:40.299 --> 02:02:40.834 I want to make sure. 420 Gordon Lum 02:02:43.354 --> 02:03:04.264 Yeah, from the communications point of view, I believe. Yes. Uh, CC gateway can do that, but, uh, from a functional point of view, whether that it can, uh, successfully monitor all the outputs of the behind it, and successfully control them to extend such that it meets all the. 421 Gordon Lum 02:03:04.269 --> 02:03:25.414 Locations at the that I do not know I'm more of a communications engineer and not a power engineer. So I believe from a sub communications point of view it is supported but from an actual physical parent electronics behind the gateway, I don't have any. 422 Gordon Lum 02:03:25.444 --> 02:03:26.044 Parents on that. 423 Roger Salas SCE 02:03:27.034 --> 02:03:36.694 Do you know, the gateway takes inputs from the BCC such as from CDs and BTS and that's his own calculation to determine powerful. 424 Gordon Lum 02:03:37.054 --> 02:03:44.824 I think at 10, um, I've seen where locally it has a separate meter, and it will take, uh, input from that measures. 425 Gordon Lum 02:03:46.984 --> 02:03:58.984 Values at the and take separate measurements, reported values from the and behind it and then they can do that type of management. 426 Roger Salas SCE 02:03:59.914 --> 02:04:04.684 Do you know that functionality has been certified or certified? Anyway? 427 Gordon Lum 02:04:04.714 --> 02:04:06.064 Yeah, personally I doubt it. 428 Gordon Lum 02:04:08.045 --> 02:04:08.375 I don't. 429 Roger Salas SCE 02:04:10.805 --> 02:04:28.835 Thank you for that, I think, you know, hang around for our discussion and I'll use, cause we have 1 slide for this. And and so we had a lot of questions as to whether certification capabilities was even possible with a, with a gateway device at the generic facility. So, but anyway. 430 Roger Salas SCE 02:04:28.894 --> 02:04:30.184 Thank you for your clarification. 431 John Berdner Enphase 02:04:36.905 --> 02:04:54.245 Hey, Roger, this is John. Maybe we'll cover it, uh, in your presentation, but I think we're confusing. Gateways and plant controllers. Gateway is essentially a communication. 432 John Berdner Enphase 02:04:57.515 --> 02:05:13.355 For example, local Dr, communication interface and we're really talking about communications from that device to some other server utility server, for example. Mm. Hmm. And that is different than a plant control. 433 Roger Salas SCE 02:05:13.955 --> 02:05:14.375 Mm, hmm. 434 John Berdner Enphase 02:05:14.615 --> 02:05:15.365 That is not. 435 John Berdner Enphase 02:05:15.424 --> 02:05:34.024 Say that a given gateway device can't do other control functions, but from a pure C requirement, they're not really required to do the functions. They're required to be able to receive the commands and pass those commands along. 436 Roger Salas SCE 02:05:34.534 --> 02:05:34.834 Yeah. 437 John Berdner Enphase 02:05:34.924 --> 02:05:36.484 The end of the individual. 438 John Berdner Enphase 02:05:37.114 --> 02:05:38.344 Or to a plant controller. 439 Roger Salas SCE 02:05:38.884 --> 02:05:55.984 Yep, yeah, that was our thought as well gentlemen we thought that the combination of and function 8 were more designed for communications between aggregator to the facilities or from the utilities to to the facilities and, and. 440 Roger Salas SCE 02:05:57.724 --> 02:06:17.524 I mean, very difficult time trying to figure out whether we could accomplish the, because I think that's 1 of the questions, utilizing a gateway device or plant controller. I mean, we, we thought that we were more aligning. So, like, with your comments, like, we need something like the to be able to achieve that. 441 John Berdner Enphase 02:06:18.905 --> 02:06:39.905 Right, I think the requirements are, as Gordon said, they're around the communication side and getting the commands to the site, or, you know, through the cloud based gateway or or not tight gateway. But the actual certification of export limiting. 442 John Berdner Enphase 02:06:40.000 --> 02:07:01.115 For example, would be part of the or part of a plant controller, and within the 547 construct, there isn't really a test to show that, um, can be load following. And that was part of the emphasis impetus behind developing. 443 John Berdner Enphase 02:07:01.504 --> 02:07:19.324 The work was to have a certification method to certify that with its associated gateways and pack controllers can be load power but doesn't really do that. 444 Roger Salas SCE 02:07:27.425 --> 02:07:28.505 Thanks John appreciate it. 445 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:07:34.805 --> 02:07:35.315 Okay. 446 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:07:35.345 --> 02:07:35.765 I'm just. 447 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:07:37.955 --> 02:07:39.335 Yeah, Brian yes. 448 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:07:40.745 --> 02:07:51.905 I'm just curious and I don't know if this is a question for Gordon or maybe more for the CPC, but I'm just curious what the impetus was for exploring this idea of leveraging but it may have. 449 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:07:51.935 --> 02:08:12.995 75,230 in terms of exploring what could be done before certified devices are available, but I don't think this necessarily relieves us of having some sort of certification for the export control. Because basically, if we had a local controlling system on site. 450 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:08:13.059 --> 02:08:34.174 You'd have to have the storage of a schedule, communicating these via these 2030.5 commands to the inverters and that package needs to be trusted and there's probably additional verification. That needs to be done in terms of the package. That contains the schedule and does the export control. Which I think then just points. 451 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:08:34.234 --> 02:08:46.354 Back to the power control systems certification, which I believe was basically what we were intending to rely on all the way back to the working group report and the resolution. So I'm just curious as to. 452 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:08:48.484 --> 02:09:05.404 Are we trying to go down an alternative path PCs with this path? Just lead us right back to TCs certification anyways. And do we need to look at this further? I just also want to raise. Probably doesn't need to be said in terms of this. 453 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:09:06.725 --> 02:09:27.755 Discussion exactly, but just wanted to note that rule 21 does not require scheduling of power power values so it may be a C tested thing, but it's actually not required by real 20 ones, and it seems to be a point of clarification that's needed from time to time, so I just wanted to mention that. 454 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:09:29.584 --> 02:09:31.624 Okay, thank you for Ron and. 455 Roger Salas SCE 02:09:31.624 --> 02:09:48.664 Liberal comments, I think how we got here in terms of potentially contemplating you seeing function Nate. If I say 3 would a system gateway device. I think it just goes back to really early in the process back. 456 Roger Salas SCE 02:09:48.939 --> 02:10:10.024 2018 or so, even before I would even save him before initiation of the development of original PCs standard. And so at that point, I think we, we just had kind of an idea. Like, hey, well, we have a 503 that can limit power. And then we have a bunch of data, it looks silly. So you combine them both and maybe you can achieve this. 457 Roger Salas SCE 02:10:10.624 --> 02:10:31.234 We were not, you know, so I think that's where that idea. So looking for, but nothing really was gonna say, put together to make sure that you worked the way it was intended eventually after the other PCs working group through region study going along. And I think that's, that's where we are. 458 Roger Salas SCE 02:10:31.534 --> 02:10:39.964 But I think we're sort of in alignment that in a way, we need a PCs to make this work. But I think it's part of the decision and that's why we needed to discuss it. 459 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:10:42.514 --> 02:11:02.254 Yes, roger's correct. This goes back to the actual working group where there is no mention of the PCs system. It just discusses the functions. Roger mentioned. So this is where this whole topic comes in, whether we are ready now to implement, or whether. 460 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:11:02.315 --> 02:11:10.235 We need the PCs and I think Justin, how do you stand up and then. 461 Regnier, Justin 02:11:16.354 --> 02:11:22.384 Um, yeah, I think that, uh, John raised many of the points and other folks have the. 462 Regnier, Justin 02:11:24.844 --> 02:11:45.364 Presentation was intended to clarify whether or not the functionality that we already have in place is sufficient to get the message to whatever device on site is controlling the output. Gordon is done a good job of establishing that the information payload can get there whether that's for 1 value at 12 values. 463 Regnier, Justin 02:11:46.595 --> 02:11:59.465 Ada values I think John was established that, uh, we'll have to have a PCs in order to be able to do limited generation profile. And I think that's kind of been the, the case all along. Um. 464 Regnier, Justin 02:12:01.564 --> 02:12:04.324 In short, I don't think I've got anything additional Dan. So please go ahead. 465 Sky Stanfield 02:12:08.464 --> 02:12:26.554 Um, I guess what I was gonna follow on that with Justin. I think what Brian was trying to build to is just in light of the enormous amount of additional things that we still need to cover. Um, how are we going to focus in this discussion? Um, or make a decision about what to spend more time on in that in that. 466 Sky Stanfield 02:12:35.015 --> 02:12:35.465 I guess. 467 Sky Stanfield 02:12:36.729 --> 02:12:41.914 Is anybody still advocating for doing this approach? And if so should we spend more time on it? And if not. 468 Sky Stanfield 02:12:42.664 --> 02:12:48.034 We move on, um, because I'm not I wasn't hearing that anybody really is taking that that angle. 469 Roger Salas SCE 02:12:49.024 --> 02:12:57.394 Yeah, I mean, you'll, you'll hear in our slight sky that that's really what we want to do and just, I mean, we, we put it there just for discussion purposes, which I think we can always. 470 Roger Salas SCE 02:12:57.905 --> 02:13:19.025 Almost already admit that slide because we are having a discussion and this presentation from order, which is great but our conclusion there was that that really, we believe that we need a BCS standard to make this work. And while we can continue to explore these functions through any combination, it just seems to. 471 Roger Salas SCE 02:13:19.055 --> 02:13:38.225 Complicated, you know, and we don't we have no idea whether it's gonna work on that. So, our view is that, let's just wait for the PCs. We're not that far along as us as John. Knows. I mean, John's doing a great job leading that team. So really, I think it's best just to wait for that as is really not that far away. Um. 472 Sky Stanfield 02:13:39.215 --> 02:13:40.115 And thanks for. 473 Sky Stanfield 02:13:40.324 --> 02:14:01.264 And Jose is that, um, like, procedurally, in terms of where you are, in terms of what was in the original decision. And I do remember that, you know, this is articulated in the decision. But if it seems like that's not where anybody is, do we need is there anything we need to do to satisfy your process? If we just decide to move on to focus on the PCs is dead. 474 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:14:03.934 --> 02:14:18.634 I think, and I'll let Justin also a chime in, but I think, uh, hearing what everybody has said, you know, uh, and seeing how long it's taking us to be, where we are right now. 475 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:14:21.814 --> 02:14:24.004 If the PTs is going to take. 476 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:14:25.324 --> 02:14:30.724 Years, you know, I, I guess it would be a timing issue. 477 Regnier, Justin 02:14:30.874 --> 02:14:46.234 Yeah, let me clarify a little bit, because not, everybody's got the inside baseball. So right now there is a certification a, that is out there that is functional. That many converters have John. 478 Regnier, Justin 02:14:46.804 --> 02:15:07.594 John Gardner of the on this call is working on updating that to include a greater level of scheduling capability as well as a whole bunch of other enhancements. And my understanding is that effort is we're looking at a quarter or 2 until that is that is ready for prime time. The discussion. 479 Regnier, Justin 02:15:07.655 --> 02:15:28.745 Here, and I'm going to push a little bit back on what Roger was saying is intended to evaluate whether, or not what we already have is sufficient to go ahead and implement limited generation profile. And I think the folks from what I'm hearing on the call are agreed that there are 2 elements that need. 480 Regnier, Justin 02:15:28.775 --> 02:15:49.895 To be in place, at least 1, is to get the information to the site and the 2nd is to be able to use that information to control the output of the site such that the export value has never exceeded. And the point I think we're trying to evaluate here is, okay, do we have the 1st part. 481 Regnier, Justin 02:15:50.374 --> 02:16:11.044 335, and I think we do and I think that's the, what Gordon's final takeaway is I think we run the risk getting bogged down in every possible permutation that could go whether it's 20, 30 dot 5 to whatever. 482 Regnier, Justin 02:16:11.074 --> 02:16:16.804 Back net, whatever you want to use so maybe we can avoid that conversation and just. 483 Regnier, Justin 02:16:18.995 --> 02:16:37.025 Understand that an inverter that can make it 321 has to be able through some set of communications to get this message from the origin to the site through 2030.5 and that that infrastructure is in place. So. 484 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:16:46.894 --> 02:17:05.075 And I think, you know, given that 23.5 is there, maybe that's a task to I don't know if it would ease certification of the systems. But the PCs working group could maybe, I don't know if you've discussed this before John, but maybe you could consider whether. 485 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:17:06.094 --> 02:17:27.183 Voters have standardized communications and a gateway slash PCs has standardized communications, or doesn't really have to be a gateway, but just the PCs head ends whatever's measuring export can output standardized communications then maybe those 2 certifications can basically be. 486 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:17:27.214 --> 02:17:48.004 Together, but that's more of an internal testing protocol issue, I think, as to whether we can leverage this inside. I don't see us getting around still having to certify that export control method and the scheduling aspect of it, which, you know, again just would basically just lead us back to the. 487 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:17:48.393 --> 02:17:49.864 Our control system certification. 488 Regnier, Justin 02:17:51.124 --> 02:17:58.624 Yeah, and I think I would agree, except I don't think we need to certify the communications part of it because we've already got that through. 489 John Berdner Enphase 02:18:01.803 --> 02:18:02.134 Yeah. 490 John Berdner Enphase 02:18:05.405 --> 02:18:24.304 We deliberately, uh, said that the communication of the schedule was out of scope. Um, partially because, uh, 2030.5 doesn't support a recurring schedule today. So it could, but it would have to be revised. 491 John Berdner Enphase 02:18:25.115 --> 02:18:46.115 Because if if you look at the way, the world 21 process occurs the, um, it doesn't consider basically exchanging schedules electronically. Basically says the utility gives the, um, you know. 492 John Berdner Enphase 02:18:46.174 --> 02:19:06.064 Or the owner, the, and then the owner proposal to schedule, and then utility approves or rejects that schedule. So, there really wasn't a way that we could see to automate this today. That doesn't mean it can't be done. It just. 493 John Berdner Enphase 02:19:07.744 --> 02:19:27.723 All the pieces aren't there to do it today using 2035 and exchanging schedules so we defined a format so we can exchange schedules and agree on what the schedules mean, but we didn't take the next step obtain and we defined a protocol to transmit those schedules. 494 Regnier, Justin 02:19:29.464 --> 02:19:49.384 And that would maybe just add a little bit onto that. John we can't say for sure that every implementation of 2039.5 can do this, because there's only a certain number of values that are tested in the, um, regime. It may well be that a particular piece of hardware has. 495 Regnier, Justin 02:19:50.375 --> 02:20:10.565 You know, dozens, hundreds of register values and then you're fine. Um, but in any case, I think we're, we're silent on how the owner operator aggregator. Whoever it is, is controlling the asset actually controls. 496 Regnier, Justin 02:20:11.915 --> 02:20:30.935 They are committing to controlling the asset within a certain bound of export, whether that's somebody standing there punching in a new value every hour. Or whether that's something that can automate through an online platform is is not something that little 21 concerns itself with. We're just. 497 Regnier, Justin 02:20:31.954 --> 02:20:36.724 Demonstrating in this, that there is, in fact, a digital pathway should be able to be prepared to take that. 498 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:20:45.604 --> 02:21:05.734 Okay, uh, thank you. Everyone. Uh, I think we need to move ahead, uh, to the next presentation by, uh, and, uh, we will take into consideration everything that was said regarding the timing and whether we need continue to. 499 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:21:05.739 --> 02:21:26.434 Question on this issue or not. So, uh, look for emails on regarding further feedback. So, Francisco can we bring in to underscore a Pre slides? All right and Brian, you're still with us. 500 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:21:27.695 --> 02:21:29.855 You are so, take it away. 501 Brian Seal 02:21:31.834 --> 02:21:34.084 Okay, I'm going to leave. Can you hear me? Okay. 502 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:21:34.924 --> 02:21:35.764 Yes, we can. 503 Brian Seal 02:21:36.514 --> 02:21:52.264 Bandwidth limited where I am, so I'm going to leave the leave, the audio off, or the video off rather. So I'll go quickly through this. I think this is a much simpler thing than what we've been talking about, but it may be something that fewer people. 504 Brian Seal 02:21:52.294 --> 02:21:55.804 Have been following, or or are aware of so next slide. 505 Brian Seal 02:21:58.985 --> 02:22:19.055 So so, 1st, just the context of it, this is about a file format for exchange of these profiles, these schedules and the work has been driven by the work in the of the 741 PCs working group. 506 Brian Seal 02:22:19.503 --> 02:22:40.203 John has been mentioning a lot of the folks that are on the call here today are part of that working group and have been directly involved in this but I think the interest there, and I just pulled this out of the 1 of the CPC documents. I know time has passed and the numbers have changed and things like that but just the idea that, that we're all discussing here, that customers. 507 Brian Seal 02:22:40.209 --> 02:23:00.814 Will be able to interconnect using a scheduled export limit, or a time bearing short limit. And then, in particular, I highlighted here this idea that is up for, I guess, discussion or discussion within California of whether the use of a standard format is interesting for that or not. But the next slide. 508 Brian Seal 02:23:03.844 --> 02:23:22.024 So this is actually a build slide, but to stop here for a moment. So I really think it's neat to have this discussion right? Follow right after Gordon just to make the point that we're, we're talking about 2 completely different places in the in the sort of data. 509 Brian Seal 02:23:22.565 --> 02:23:43.655 Chain, so all the colored arrows near the center of this of this diagram are the places where the use of a schedule file format might be useful. On the other hand, the, if you look to the far, right you see these examples of a PCs in the inverter or a. 510 Brian Seal 02:23:43.685 --> 02:24:04.085 On PTs and this sort of visual of a communication cable where you're actually using a communication protocol, and you have to have things like interoperability because you're trying to talk to a device to, for example, give it a schedule. And it has to understand what you're talking about and for that, all of that discussion that Gordon was leading is relevant. 511 Brian Seal 02:24:04.833 --> 02:24:25.953 How you actually do it, we're not overlapping with that at all or even talking about that. What we're talking about is a file format that could, for example, be attached to an email. You could save it. A developer could save hundreds of them in a folder on their hard disk you could upload or download. 512 Brian Seal 02:24:25.984 --> 02:24:47.104 To a website, it could be linked or tied to a contract things of that nature. So it's a file format. So, some of the things that where it could be used obviously the green arrow pointing to the. Right? So, here again, the utility is on the left and everything to the right here is developer. 513 Brian Seal 02:24:47.134 --> 02:25:08.254 So the utility could make known the time varying constraint in a, in a uniform way most directly in the California discussion. The orange arrow pointing back the data that's submitted with an application. So, the idea that a developer could submit a profile. 514 Brian Seal 02:25:08.285 --> 02:25:29.315 With their application, there might be something involved in the approval. I E, something that gets locked in as part of the agreement or the contract for future reference between both the parties and finally the proof slash evidence that utilities often require for other types of. 515 Brian Seal 02:25:29.465 --> 02:25:50.525 Pr settings to say, hey, something doesn't look right at this site. Could you go do a read or something and send me what you see at the site? So that I can do some comparison and verify that it is operating with the correct schedule. So all of this is sort of at or soon following interconnection if you could just click just to complete the story here. 516 Brian Seal 02:25:50.583 --> 02:25:52.803 Where we're coming from at the. 517 Brian Seal 02:25:56.284 --> 02:26:15.514 I did not see that. Fill in. Is there a, can you do a slide advance? Yeah, there we go. So, similarly, at the at the test lab, the these same files could be used to support testing. 518 Brian Seal 02:26:16.024 --> 02:26:37.084 And, uh, the idea here is simply that the, the test agency provides the, the sequence of schedules that are become the approved test schedules that that's a tough thing. By the way, it's the idea that if you if I give you these schedules and you do them properly, that we believe you will then. 519 Brian Seal 02:26:37.114 --> 02:26:56.794 So all possible schedules correctly, and keeping that to a bare minimum. So that scheduling testing cost doesn't get too large, is a challenge, but the group is working on that. But, anyway, this is the format by which the test agency could hand the sequence of test schedules to. 520 JM 02:26:58.894 --> 02:26:59.494 Justin. 521 JM 02:27:03.515 --> 02:27:03.785 This is. 522 Brian Seal 02:27:04.175 --> 02:27:04.715 Your questions. 523 Brian Seal 02:27:11.554 --> 02:27:13.354 Can you hear me okay did someone verify. 524 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:27:14.284 --> 02:27:17.134 I guess Brian and I can hear you there were some background noise. 525 Brian Seal 02:27:17.524 --> 02:27:29.014 Okay, no problem. Yeah. So, in this case, it's the vendor provided tools and here. Well, and then, of course, in the reverse direction, the other black arrow at the bottom, you verify. 526 Brian Seal 02:27:29.735 --> 02:27:50.255 That the behavior was correct this is the measured power behavior so you're closing the loop between the schedule provided and the behavior and what you're not doing in this picture is looking at what's happening over there on the blue Ethernet cable, in terms of how that vendor is getting their their device or their site program that's. 527 Brian Seal 02:27:50.525 --> 02:28:11.555 Out of scope for the moment, at least in this particular discussion. So this is not uncommon. Right? This happens in a lot of types of tests where you will turn to the vendor and say, hey, disable your island detection and they say, okay, it's disabled. And then they run a particular test and now re, enabled. 528 Brian Seal 02:28:11.643 --> 02:28:26.433 And they run another test how they're doing that is really out of scope of the test but the result of behavior is in scope. So something similar here where the schedules get handed across. So, this is why this is all being documented in that process next slide. 529 Brian Seal 02:28:29.704 --> 02:28:49.504 So just a quick summary of that again, it has been a moving target it was initiated by that working group requirements in California of course, Hawaii and more. Recently, Massachusetts have all been on the, on the table and influencing the work to some extent or another the technical approach that we took. And that's what I'm going to show in just. 530 Brian Seal 02:28:49.655 --> 02:29:10.775 Is to keep with a very simple human, readable CSB file format. It's not high tech, but it is consistent with what was done and I triple e147 in terms of the results reporting file and it's subsequently been followed for the standard file formats for settings. That defines a way that utility. 531 Brian Seal 02:29:10.804 --> 02:29:31.864 Could publicize, or document their required settings in a way that all developers are familiar with and could even automate. So, that time is reduced cost is reduced at human error that could hold up in our connection is removed settings, whether they're actually, I'm sorry schedule settings, whether they're actually executed in. 532 Brian Seal 02:29:31.930 --> 02:29:53.075 Pcs, or wherever that becomes done is, in a way, it's just an extension of the other settings for the site things like the Volt Parkers and things like that. So, since we already have this momentum moving forward for a CSB file format for the remainder of the site settings, it seems natural to define it for the schedule export limit. 533 Brian Seal 02:29:53.104 --> 02:30:02.944 The same way basic principle was to keep it simple not to let engineers do what engineers do and go wild with, you know. 534 Brian Seal 02:30:03.484 --> 02:30:24.094 Extreme expandability and capability, and yet try to very elegantly cover. This sort of diverse, initial set of needs that we see from from the States and things and not to paint too tight. A corner. Where, literally, the slightest change is needed going from 12 entries per year to 24 and. 535 Brian Seal 02:30:24.100 --> 02:30:30.125 The whole format falls apart, so we try to avoid that. So the next slide, I think will make all that clear. 536 Brian Seal 02:30:31.444 --> 02:30:52.264 And again, please, please interrupt me just jump in if you have questions or Jose, if you see things coming in and chat just called into my attention. So, in a nutshell, here is what the schedule looks like again, all the colorization, and the things are not saved in CSB file because it's just a. 537 Brian Seal 02:30:52.324 --> 02:31:13.444 Text file, but we colorized them here just for clarity. So the 1st, 2 sections at the top are optional. So the 1st is, we called it metadata. And so what is metadata? It's just data that's beyond the schedule itself that 1 might want to include in a file for example, to identify who published this file where did it come from? 538 Brian Seal 02:31:13.449 --> 02:31:34.594 From, which which Dr. site is it intended to be used for when was this file created you imagine looking on your hard disc, and you've got 100 of these files there unless you've labeled them very carefully how would you know, which 1 came from? Where? And so forth, so this metadata provides a way for files, whether they are sent out from a utility. 539 Brian Seal 02:31:34.625 --> 02:31:50.315 To a developer, or sent to a utility as part of an application, or whatever provides a way for content to be put in there. And so quite a few of these labels these metadata labels have been identified so that you can actually have. 540 Brian Seal 02:31:51.934 --> 02:32:12.664 If you chose to use them, you could have interoperability around those. So we say optional here. Now, what do we mean by that? We're not trying to speak for the state of California. We're trying to say, just in terms of this file format, standard, this content could either be there or not adopters like the state of California should they use. 541 Brian Seal 02:32:12.905 --> 02:32:32.645 Could say, for example, here there shall be 3 metadata at the top and it shall be this 1 this 1 and this 1 for all schedule files. Something like that. So optional in terms of the standard format. But not for you. The next section is even more open ended, it's called comments and this is just. 542 Brian Seal 02:32:33.819 --> 02:32:54.964 unparsable by any machine, but it's just human readable notes that you can add in. So, again, that's the green and the orange sections when you get to the blue, it's the actual schedule. So, the simplest schedule file would only have the part that you see in blue here and it has 5 columns and each column is labeled as a schedule entry. And that's only 2. 543 Brian Seal 02:32:54.995 --> 02:33:12.275 Differentiate it from the parts above and so for each entry there is a start date a start time and an export limit. And then there's this 1 other field, which is an effective day type and I'll talk more about that in just a moment. That's not not relevant in California at the moment. 544 Brian Seal 02:33:13.324 --> 02:33:34.444 So, if you look down that column, the effective day type, you'll see the word all, which means this row this entry applies to all day types. Whether it's a week day, Monday through Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it doesn't matter, applies to all of them. And so that that's the way to just basically ignore that that entry. So that sort of. 545 Brian Seal 02:33:34.449 --> 02:33:55.564 1, I said, we were trying to balance simplicity with with not painting ourselves into a corner too quickly. That center column there is really the 1 field that is put in that. We don't think anyone is going to use any time soon. Everything else is immediately relevant. So, yeah, the start date. 546 Brian Seal 02:33:55.625 --> 02:34:16.745 And start time, and in the right most column what the values are in the column we actually allowed for either absolute wants or percent of nameplate plots, there were sort of 2 different use cases on the table for discussion and certain stakeholders required both. I think the absolute, what value is the. 547 Brian Seal 02:34:16.775 --> 02:34:37.865 1, that I understand is more interesting in California, so that label that identifiers at the top of the column to the right and then the values underneath are just the export limit in. So so, this one's colorized just to show the sections. But if you go to the next slide, Jose. 548 Brian Seal 02:34:38.494 --> 02:34:59.044 Our Francisco, it's a shorter schedule so this 1 is more directly what we are hearing a California schedule might look like. So it has exactly 12 entries. If you want to just do a, you know, a monthly export limit, then you have 12 rows, each start date. 549 Brian Seal 02:34:59.074 --> 02:35:20.194 Is the 1st of the month? Each start time is the 1st hour and minute of the day. So those are quite straightforward. The flexibility is there to deviate from that standpoint. But but here it's just very tightly held to the front of each month. And then you get an export limit, the 1 thing we would point out or I would point out here is that in this. 550 Brian Seal 02:35:20.199 --> 02:35:41.344 Particular example, if you look at the export limits to the lot to the right they're all the same until you get down towards the bottom. So, in fact, you don't even have to have 12 entries. If if the export limit doesn't change between 1 month, and the next, you would just whatever you enter the way this framework. 551 Brian Seal 02:35:41.350 --> 02:36:02.495 It stays in effect until until the next time slot comes. So, everything is not the way this speck is written is perhaps not obvious in this picture, but it is obvious in the document in the specification document. It's subscribed very clearly. And so there's inherent. 552 Brian Seal 02:36:02.500 --> 02:36:22.835 Here, so, for any schedule file, it loops from top to bottom it loops indefinitely. So, schedule specifies a year, that year is going to play year after year after year until such time as a new schedule is sent, or this one's deleted or whatever within a given start date. 553 Brian Seal 02:36:24.394 --> 02:36:44.764 It's going to loop whatever is the the daily schedule if you have hourly entries, like, in Hawaii, where you have 24 hours of the day, those are going to repeat on a daily basis again until a new start date arrives. And then, likewise, even if you ever move to this week. 554 Brian Seal 02:36:44.799 --> 02:37:05.224 For effective date type feature. Same thing there right? Like up a Monday through Friday entry repeats until it's no longer that Monday through Friday, and it would hit the Saturday to Sunday and then loop back. So you have weekly looping that's specified if used hourly or daily daily looping and then. 555 Brian Seal 02:37:05.949 --> 02:37:26.914 Calendar date looping. Bottom line is it's compresses very nicely. So the simpler your use case is the shorter of the file is in California case, 12 entries, 1 more slide and then we can just pause for discussion. Someone had raised the question about verification or whatever. 556 Brian Seal 02:37:28.385 --> 02:37:48.215 1 of the neat things about a standard file format is people can automate settings are complicated, getting it right. Is difficult. So, even with the best of intentions, it's very easy to to set things incorrectly and either hold up the approval process or the commission. 557 Brian Seal 02:37:48.275 --> 02:38:09.395 Testing things of that nature costs everyone time and money. So having the ability to, for example, have site tools designed by developers that receive these schedule files or and ingest them and apply them electronically really takes the human loop and saves time and money but for. 558 Brian Seal 02:38:09.424 --> 02:38:30.484 Developers to invest in such automation, they have to see uniformity. Right they can't go from 1 state to the next, or from 1 utility to the next and the way they're being fed the schedule requirements is different. Everywhere they turn. And so our goal, our interest here is in having a uniformly adopted. 559 Brian Seal 02:38:31.324 --> 02:38:50.944 Means of conveying these schedules and then allow those 2 tools and things that would be here. The laptop icon that's shown at the top row. The developer tools would notionally be able to receive a file during the interconnection process. For example, as a download from the. 560 Brian Seal 02:38:51.964 --> 02:39:12.754 From the application management system, and then apply those at the site with correct checks and things to make sure you're at the right site and so forth and do an error free and likewise every is, as we've worked on this file format, we've created tools that help create a file syntax free or. 561 Brian Seal 02:39:12.875 --> 02:39:22.655 Free and doing all the quality checks, and as an extension of that, we're also working on the ability to compare files. So if you feed it. 562 Brian Seal 02:39:24.185 --> 02:39:34.265 Bound file and an outbound file it could just check and say this, this is the same schedule or it isn't. And I think that's the last slide. 563 Brian Seal 02:39:37.054 --> 02:39:40.354 Yeah, there you go. So open for questions or comments. 564 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:39:43.264 --> 02:39:59.944 Okay, uh, thank you, Brian for that update. Um, which Brian mentioned. Uh, eh, that's what's, uh, the working groups are working on. So I'll, if anybody has questions nice now. Sure. Time to, uh, chime in. 565 Brian Seal 02:40:13.174 --> 02:40:17.494 Yeah, while they're thinking if you could just go back up to the slide that showed all the colored arrows. 566 Brian Seal 02:40:21.034 --> 02:40:41.374 Just want to emphasize that that the sort of link between the top half of the side. And the bottom half of this slide is an important 1, because when you're receiving interconnection applications, and they're sending you schedule, you're sending them schedules and things to know that it's going to work properly. 567 Brian Seal 02:40:42.095 --> 02:41:02.795 Having the, the, the mechanism that you're using to exchange that schedule with 1 another to be the same mechanism that was used during certification at the noodle is a very powerful thing. Right? If there's already been this validation that you can give this developer, the sort of widely varying sequence of. 568 Brian Seal 02:41:02.829 --> 02:41:19.984 Test schedules, and they will, they are able to take those and operate correctly with them. So then the notion would be that subsequently in the field where it matters most when you're using that same approach to exchanging schedules, it should work correctly there as well. 569 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:41:22.025 --> 02:41:29.525 So, the question for the utilities would be, uh, are they planning on using a standard file format cross all 3, utilities. 570 Roger Salas SCE 02:41:32.974 --> 02:41:53.584 Because it is Roger, I mean, I think I, I think more research needs to be done on that because if this is related to communication between utilities, for instance, to the aggregator, or directly to the engineering facility, um, that I think we need, at least for we need to I'm not familiar with. 571 Roger Salas SCE 02:41:53.614 --> 02:42:13.444 What we're doing in that space so it would be good to figure out what we're doing there. And I think, you know, what brian's presenting here could be, uh, something that we can align them for that type of work. But I think the word the word that we're talking about today is more of a schedules that are not being sent by the utility or an aggregator is more about. 572 Roger Salas SCE 02:42:14.854 --> 02:42:35.884 Hallway schedule could be uploaded to a PCs or to some, some other device of the generic facility to control the output of the general facility at the point of common coupling. So, I wonder whether whether, you know, maybe a question to Brian is whether, you know, the, uh, that this. 573 Roger Salas SCE 02:42:35.975 --> 02:42:55.475 It could be adapted only for a localized facility, as opposed to coming in from the, uh, from from the utility or from an oh, yeah. Coming from the utility directly, whether this can be done locally, or whether you see this format to apply locally as well as opposed to that coming from the utility. 574 Brian Seal 02:42:56.375 --> 02:42:56.975 Yeah. 575 Brian Seal 02:42:57.124 --> 02:43:18.124 Well, thanks, for the question, Roger, and it shows me how unclear I guess I was to try to clarify the, in a type scenario where you're talking to the you're sending schedules and things so you actually have a network from central out to the site, this file format has no place in that world. 576 Brian Seal 02:43:18.214 --> 02:43:38.794 At all, that's a world where we would the discussion earlier in systems is a lot more relevant. So so this, these arrows up the middle of of this diagram here are just hand offs of a file that happened during the application process. So it's. 577 Brian Seal 02:43:39.544 --> 02:44:00.484 It's a way that a developer can, as the document, the policy documents in California said to submit a with their application. So this is a file format by which they could submit the proposed schedule. And again, that's just between them and the utility as part. 578 Brian Seal 02:44:00.514 --> 02:44:21.604 For the interconnection process, and similarly, you know, the approval or the agreed file can be stored and things of that nature but once you arrive and so what would happen with that file what this is saying is that is that utilities and developers would agree on what the export. 579 Brian Seal 02:44:21.640 --> 02:44:41.915 It is foresight, they would have this electronic file format that they could use between the 2 of them to, to understand and agree on what that what that profile is. And then how that developer actually programs the equipment at the site, what protocol they used to do that is, is undefined in this body of work. 580 Brian Seal 02:44:43.024 --> 02:45:03.934 It's it's out of scope it's both at the noodle, and during the interconnection process, we're not speaking to that at all. But to your point. Absolutely. The expectation here is that, however, they accomplish that. Let's say, for example, they just use a vendor of vendor proprietary means or protocol. Yeah. The full expectation here is. 581 Brian Seal 02:45:03.964 --> 02:45:07.954 That that site now, knows that schedule and execute it. 582 Brian Seal 02:45:09.579 --> 02:45:11.014 An ongoing basis reliably. 583 Roger Salas SCE 02:45:13.833 --> 02:45:34.953 Right. So you have to do that and then and it'll say to your comment I think we actually have a slide in our deck that talks about the file format or template. Maybe that's an area that Brian you hang around. We can have more discussions there. I think the challenges are going to be. 584 Roger Salas SCE 02:45:34.984 --> 02:45:56.104 For the utilities is going to be like, for instance, the headers and things like that, that may have different terminology into within the internal utilities systems. Right? So, you know, the, it's very important that not only the file. It's, uh, it's it's, I guess it's very important that the form the. 585 Roger Salas SCE 02:45:56.224 --> 02:46:17.254 If he comes into utility that we can then upload it to our systems and our systems recognize what things are in each utility has, you know, different internal nomenclature of saying like, headers. Then, you know, it may be difficult to standardize a template. But but I think we have that discussion as part of our. 586 Roger Salas SCE 02:46:17.735 --> 02:46:18.125 As well. 587 Brian Seal 02:46:21.244 --> 02:46:23.404 Got it yeah, that would be interesting. Thanks. 588 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:23.764 --> 02:46:32.194 All right, thank you, Roger. Uh, so we expect more discussion there come the, uh, utility, uh, presentation. Um. 589 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:32.769 --> 02:46:34.294 Any other comments or questions. 590 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:40.564 --> 02:46:45.364 Okay, so it's 222 we're a bit, um. 591 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:46.984 --> 02:46:48.214 For a bit 20 minutes. 592 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:51.335 --> 02:46:55.415 Schedule so, do people need a 5 minute break. 593 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:46:59.764 --> 02:47:01.564 Raise your hand so. 594 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:47:03.814 --> 02:47:08.644 Majority rule otherwise I think we can jump into the utility presentation. 595 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:47:13.294 --> 02:47:27.454 So, going once going twice. Okay. So, uh, let's, uh, jump in, uh, Francisco. Could you bring up slide? 6 underscore. 596 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:47:41.794 --> 02:47:45.814 Okay, uh, so who is kicking this off from the utilities? 597 Alex Mwaura 02:47:52.055 --> 02:47:53.165 Alex from PG E. 598 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:47:53.915 --> 02:47:55.265 Okay, Alex go ahead. 599 Alex Mwaura 02:47:57.784 --> 02:48:18.484 Okay, so I'm really excited about the presentations we've had so far, especially the 1 from, from a key to, from Gordon, because it's, it's answered some of the so many of the questions that we had while we were trying to prepare these slides for presentation, especially for the option 3. 600 Alex Mwaura 02:48:18.519 --> 02:48:25.054 8 use case for so, I think with the presentation begins on slide number. 601 Alex Mwaura 02:48:28.655 --> 02:48:30.095 So next slide please. 602 Alex Mwaura 02:48:31.804 --> 02:48:48.754 So, I'm going to be going over the, uh, topic E, uh, which is we were asked to go over the implementation of limited generation profiles, using current smart inviter functions. Um, which are the option 3 sorry function 3 and function 8 next slide please. 603 Alex Mwaura 02:48:52.684 --> 02:48:53.434 Next please. 604 Alex Mwaura 02:48:55.835 --> 02:49:16.115 So this slide is going over the background on topic. E. um, like I said, most of these, uh, issues have been discussed at length, uh, in previous discussions. Um, so I'm not going to go over every little detail. But the 1st, part of this slide is a summary of what was included in resolution of 5,230. 605 Alex Mwaura 02:49:17.134 --> 02:49:23.074 And specifically, this, this, this topic E, and we're going to focus on. 606 Alex Mwaura 02:49:24.814 --> 02:49:45.934 Number 3, which is asking the utilities to determine which function functional elements are already present in commercially valuable providers, and which are not to establish functionality prior to the approval of the standards. So, as many of pointed out, uh, previous discussions, there are many challenges in trying to. 607 Alex Mwaura 02:49:45.939 --> 02:50:07.084 Do this without a PCs or an approved PCs that satisfied to the standard? So, I don't know how much time we really want to spend going over these issues, but since we have a deck prepared, I'll go over really quickly. So, on this slide, we defined the function 3 functional, which most people in this call already. 608 Alex Mwaura 02:50:07.114 --> 02:50:28.204 And we attempted to show a graphic that was intended to show the challenges with implementation of using function 3 and functioning. Essentially what this graphic was trying to show was that if you're trying to control export level at the for. 609 Alex Mwaura 02:50:28.444 --> 02:50:49.204 That have both load and generation, this will be a challenge without having a PCs type of device. Um, so, uh, PCs and will be located on the utility side if you will, where the load and the generation is connected and so, you know, again has been discussed before this is not a clear path. 610 Alex Mwaura 02:50:50.105 --> 02:51:10.445 How this, uh, uh, certified gateways, certified inviters are able to measure the expert level the, and then control the environment output to maintain expert levels within the. So, um, again, I don't know if there's much I can add to that discussion. I think we've already established that this is a challenge and it's probably. 611 Alex Mwaura 02:51:10.804 --> 02:51:19.054 Everyone to just wait for BCS standards to be completed and just developed. So we can test. 612 Alex Mwaura 02:51:20.675 --> 02:51:23.765 Pcs is for use with any questions on this. 613 Regnier, Justin 02:51:23.855 --> 02:51:29.225 Questions on this. Hey, Alex is Justin. Not a question, but a comment. 614 Alex Mwaura 02:51:29.705 --> 02:51:29.975 Okay. 615 Regnier, Justin 02:51:30.125 --> 02:51:30.605 Um. 616 Regnier, Justin 02:51:33.244 --> 02:51:43.774 If we can get on the record here, so PCs does exist. It's in the process of being updated. 617 Alex Mwaura 02:51:44.404 --> 02:51:44.734 That's. 618 Regnier, Justin 02:51:44.764 --> 02:51:47.104 There is a functional PCs out there. 619 Alex Mwaura 02:51:47.764 --> 02:51:48.244 Yes. 620 Regnier, Justin 02:51:49.474 --> 02:51:52.774 And it sounds like everybody has come to consensus. 621 Regnier, Justin 02:51:53.164 --> 02:52:13.984 We can't do limited generation profile unless we have a PCs that's set up to control the output at the point of common company. So the utility customer interface um, so just 2 comments 1 is the PCs does exist and is being utilized in. 622 Regnier, Justin 02:52:13.989 --> 02:52:15.124 The real world today. 623 Alex Mwaura 02:52:15.574 --> 02:52:15.994 Yes. 624 Regnier, Justin 02:52:16.084 --> 02:52:34.324 And the 2nd is just a question to the group if, if we can just come to consensus on that. And or if we can, we can verify that. That is a consensus and go from there. So, we don't because we've, we've had that that discussion several times in this yeah, in this workshop. 625 Alex Mwaura 02:52:35.140 --> 02:52:56.285 I'll make a comment and I'll make a comment and I'll invite probably Brian too. So does exist. We are using devices to control PCCC level ex, uh, export, uh, put limits on, I guess, power, uh, power flow, whether it's. 626 Alex Mwaura 02:52:56.344 --> 02:53:15.364 You know, import only export only no exchange or unrestricted, but this, this restrictions are based on a single value. So, I think what's being developed is the ability of the existing or new PCs to control export based on a schedule. 627 Alex Mwaura 02:53:17.464 --> 02:53:19.024 Brian, you want to chime in or anybody else. 628 John Berdner Enphase 02:53:24.545 --> 02:53:26.405 Yeah, this is John. Can you hear me. 629 Alex Mwaura 02:53:26.495 --> 02:53:28.115 Sorry, I'm in John. Sorry. Sorry, John. 630 John Berdner Enphase 02:53:28.655 --> 02:53:41.165 Yeah, no problem. Um, I agree with what you said. Uh, and with, with Justin said PCs today, the existing the support expert remaining at the. 631 John Berdner Enphase 02:53:42.125 --> 02:53:51.125 As well as, um, export or import limiting from specifically you you're correct. 632 John Berdner Enphase 02:53:52.894 --> 02:54:13.414 It supports it around a single fixed value of export limiting what we're working on in the revision, which again, we're hoping to have out. I keep saying the next quarter. It keeps being more longer than that, but we're really making a concerted effort to get it out in the next quarter. 2. 633 John Berdner Enphase 02:54:14.104 --> 02:54:34.984 Would be to add the scheduling functionality that, uh, Brian presented, he's leading the scheduling working group. And so what we're now doing the thing, we would have a standardized file format to have a recurring schedule that would run locally. 634 John Berdner Enphase 02:54:35.014 --> 02:54:56.104 In the PCs controller without communication, once it's loaded, it just keeps doing what it what, uh, what you've told it to do repeats the loop over and over. So that's what we're adding. And again that should give us the functionality we need for limited. 635 John Berdner Enphase 02:54:56.375 --> 02:55:04.775 Profile, but we don't have scheduling of an export limit at the Today within the theory. 636 Regnier, Justin 02:55:12.395 --> 02:55:14.675 Understood and and I think the. 637 Regnier, Justin 02:55:17.734 --> 02:55:33.034 Much of what we're doing much of what we're doing in the effort is building on expanding that functionality. That's a part of 2035 and wrapping it into 1 certification as opposed to 2. sorry I don't mean to hijack. Please. Go ahead. 638 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:55:36.784 --> 02:55:37.204 Um. 639 Alex Mwaura 02:55:37.264 --> 02:55:37.864 Sorry, go ahead. 640 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:55:38.824 --> 02:55:55.354 Yeah, cause I just mentioned 1 thing I, I think we had chatted about it in the smart inverter working group and I just wanted to put a footnote on it that relays and other devices like our tech real time. 641 Brian Lydic - IREC 02:55:55.444 --> 02:56:16.234 Automation controller could be leveraged to do the same thing, but aren't certified. And so, if we wanted to create other pathways to do this, we could potentially do it with other equipment, and maybe additional commissioning steps to ensure compatibility. But we haven't really been going down that pathway. But I just wanted to. 642 Alex Mwaura 02:56:23.194 --> 02:56:43.294 So, Justin, it was no problem Thank you for chiming in and then to brian's point, I think if, if we were to go down exploring an option to use a relay for a scheduled, um, export limit. Um, this is, this is not something that I think speaking for PG E were prepared to accept obviously we would have. 643 Alex Mwaura 02:56:43.324 --> 02:57:04.444 To have discussions this time in white tap testing needs to go it. What what sort of felt safe we need to have to make to ensure that as was pointed out before by John. It's not just the ability for certified equipment to accept the schedule. It's how do they how do they maintain that? 644 Alex Mwaura 02:57:04.474 --> 02:57:25.564 How do they treat, uh, you know, different times of the year different hours, you know, holidays, weekends, that kind of stuff? So it would have to be, you'd have to, at the minimum have the same capability. I'm not sure what test protocol would be used. Uh, this time would probably be the same as a certified equipment, but again, this is just speaking. 645 Alex Mwaura 02:57:26.615 --> 02:57:31.775 Off the top of my mind, there would have to be some serious discussion that we're going to making that sort of determination. 646 Alex Mwaura 02:57:34.953 --> 02:57:35.973 Next slide please. 647 Alex Mwaura 02:57:39.214 --> 02:57:59.434 So, again, my presentation section is pretty easy, because we've already gone over most of these items. Uh, this slide was intended, uh, was a question that was asked of the, and the idea was for us to again, determine which function elements are already present in commercially irrelevant. Buyers, which would be. 648 Alex Mwaura 02:57:59.824 --> 02:58:20.584 It would have to be functions 3 and 8, and again, it's been pointed out what sort of challenges we would have with such an implementation. So I don't think it's really good use of our time to go over every single bullet point on here. But essentially what we pointed out was there might be a pathway in. 649 Alex Mwaura 02:58:21.184 --> 02:58:41.734 Using functions, 3 functions 8 to implement and it would be we split it up into 2 different sections. 1 of them would be applicable to sites that only have generation. And then the 2nd piece will be sites that have generation and onset loads. And this mainly has to do with that ability. 650 Alex Mwaura 02:58:41.764 --> 02:58:56.554 Juanita PCCC level, export exports and make a decision for the invited to reduce its output to maintain that scheduled, uh, export value. So, most of the challenges I've been pointed out already so I don't want to spend too much time on here unless somebody has a question. 651 John Berdner Enphase 02:59:01.955 --> 02:59:19.805 Um, Alex is John. I had 1 question about your, um, 1st, bullet. Um, uh, we do have certified PCs that can limit the net export at the, um, by modulating. 652 John Berdner Enphase 02:59:20.193 --> 02:59:35.163 Inverter output, um, up or down, or, uh, energy storage, charge discharge so that does exist, but we don't have a way to schedule it yet. You just have 1 fixed bag so just to clarify that. 653 Alex Mwaura 02:59:35.523 --> 02:59:40.923 Good point, and I think this was actually pointing out that there's no ability to schedule it. So we can. 654 Alex Mwaura 02:59:40.984 --> 02:59:57.154 Achieve level for an use case so I understood that we have a, but this bullet point was intended to show that limitation of a piece PCs, uh, implementing, uh, schedule scheduled export. 655 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 02:59:58.324 --> 03:00:02.104 And, uh, Alex, we do have a comment from Skype to check 1. 656 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:00:02.109 --> 03:00:23.254 Option on, that could be could be for us to proceed with PCs approach. Uh, but allow you for other options with agreement with the utility. And then this could be discussed further in the smarter working group to further define the relay or. 657 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:00:25.055 --> 03:00:38.315 That was just a comment, but, uh, I think it would be worthwhile to pursue in 1 of the smart inverted working group calls dedicated to, uh, this discussion but go ahead. 658 Alex Mwaura 03:00:38.945 --> 03:00:40.235 Yeah, point taken. 659 Sky Stanfield 03:00:40.265 --> 03:00:44.405 Can I interrupt there real quick? Just to what I meant is I'm not actually. 660 Sky Stanfield 03:00:44.435 --> 03:01:04.355 Suggesting that we do that in this current 4 months that we have, but more that we can build into April, 21 the option for using other approaches. And then, as those sort of gain interest, there could be more discussion in this week versus trying to squeeze those in in this limited timeframe. We have. 661 Roger Salas SCE 03:01:06.063 --> 03:01:26.703 Yeah, Alex, this is Roger. Uh, I guess what I want to make sure that I think this is, I'm gonna say, there's been indications in this discussion, but I want to make sure we're in agreement. Are we are there? I'm going to say anybody that in this team that does not agree that we. 662 Roger Salas SCE 03:01:26.734 --> 03:01:33.394 Need a way for the PCs to be able to develop the schedules. Now, the, the work that. 663 Regnier, Justin 03:01:33.394 --> 03:01:34.624 That Jenny is working. 664 Regnier, Justin 03:01:36.724 --> 03:01:53.284 Yeah, I don't agree. I think that the, the scheduling piece and the PCs piece, it would be best if they were integrated into the same testing machine, but both elements can work independently. 665 John Berdner Enphase 03:01:57.634 --> 03:02:17.464 Yeah, this John, I, I would agree today we have a way to get a scheduled, uh, export limit to this to the using and we also have a way to, um, to limit that. 666 John Berdner Enphase 03:02:17.495 --> 03:02:38.375 At the BCC, 1 is with the gateway the other is with, um, the in the future we want to combine both functions into 1 and that would be supported by the PCs with the scheduling function that Brian. 667 John Berdner Enphase 03:02:38.824 --> 03:02:39.634 Everybody early. 668 Roger Salas SCE 03:02:45.125 --> 03:03:03.995 So, if that's the case, then I wonder whether we can, we don't need to skip through this. I mean, when you go through this slide, right? Cause you like, if that's not the case, then I think we really need to get into the details as to, like, okay, how are we gonna do it? Cause at this point, I'm not sure that at least myself. 669 Roger Salas SCE 03:03:04.024 --> 03:03:11.164 Not sure how that can actually happen besides using the, the BCS that the, the giant team are working on. 670 Alex Mwaura 03:03:12.004 --> 03:03:25.144 Yeah, no, I agree. So, and I think, you know, this slide doesn't really say how we're going to do how we're going to use function data or function 3 to achieve. 671 Alex Mwaura 03:03:25.504 --> 03:03:44.884 It's more pointing to the limitations of those functions right? And the challenges of those functions. Um, so, I mean, I could go guess I, so, Justin, are you saying that you, you think it's beneficial to pursue an option other than the. 672 Alex Mwaura 03:03:45.575 --> 03:03:49.565 To implement to be clear. 673 Regnier, Justin 03:03:50.075 --> 03:03:50.435 Yeah. 674 Regnier, Justin 03:03:51.994 --> 03:04:04.834 I think the, the, the operating question we're trying to ask, and maybe if you go back a slide, we can read it off of what was in the resolution and, you know, what is the. 675 Regnier, Justin 03:04:08.734 --> 03:04:28.594 you know which functions elements that are already present commercially available inverters to establish functionality so i think the presentation by gordon discuss the functional element around communication we've got john on the line and we think a better understanding 676 Regnier, Justin 03:04:29.165 --> 03:04:49.745 Throughout the group of the functional element, whereby a piece of equipment can be certified under the PCs to control the power output at the point of common coupling. So, I mean, we're, we're the functional elements that are required are to be able to schedule. 677 Regnier, Justin 03:04:49.774 --> 03:04:54.934 To be able to limit maximum, active paramount um. 678 Regnier, Justin 03:04:57.065 --> 03:05:10.535 It would seem that those functional elements are already present. I think we're getting wrapped a little bit around the axle in terms of whether the can implement them. I don't think the I. 679 Regnier, Justin 03:05:10.924 --> 03:05:31.984 Have to implement them. I think the the integration work will will fall to the customer. The are not doing a command and control implementation and more of an germs framework in the discussion we've had around limited generation profile. 680 Regnier, Justin 03:05:32.674 --> 03:05:53.194 Yeah, user determining the maximum safe limits for a particular time, and the actual work of implementing that would fall to the customer the question before us in terms of procedural basis and ability to, um, decide how. 681 Regnier, Justin 03:05:53.199 --> 03:06:13.774 And when to move forward is whether those function elements are already present, commercially available in burgers. So, I mean, I don't think that having all of the elements within a single tested certification is anywhere in there. If the functional elements. 682 Regnier, Justin 03:06:14.375 --> 03:06:27.995 1 of the functional limits is certified in 1 place and another of the functional wants is certified on another. Then we do have functional elements that are certified that are present and commercially available. 683 Roger Salas SCE 03:06:29.645 --> 03:06:35.495 Just, I guess we'll come in and I heard earlier the. 684 Roger Salas SCE 03:06:35.499 --> 03:06:56.644 The that the, um, the gateway device using function 3 and 8, while it was not fully certified to be able to respond to up with, from a BCC. I mean, he could receive scheduled, could deliver schedules, but you could not. 685 Roger Salas SCE 03:06:56.649 --> 03:06:58.714 Monitor PCCC. 686 Roger Salas SCE 03:07:01.295 --> 03:07:02.135 That is not sort of. 687 Regnier, Justin 03:07:02.315 --> 03:07:03.245 That is now sort of. 688 Regnier, Justin 03:07:06.244 --> 03:07:18.454 So, there's, there's a ton of different permutations that are allowable, whether that's direct communication, whether that's aggregate or mediated output, whether that's onsite gateway. Um. 689 Regnier, Justin 03:07:21.034 --> 03:07:41.764 What they all share in common is that they've gotta be certified to be able to take the information payload from a 2035 server under and get it to the device that will ultimately control the output at the. So, I think trying to go down. 690 Regnier, Justin 03:07:41.794 --> 03:07:47.374 Any 1 of the particular examples, you can always find a red herring, or an example of where it might not work. 691 Roger Salas SCE 03:07:48.214 --> 03:07:48.394 Right. 692 Regnier, Justin 03:07:48.424 --> 03:08:02.344 But what all of these elements have in common to my understanding as the certified, that the information payload can get there. And the PCs is certified that the device can control the output. 693 Regnier, Justin 03:08:03.965 --> 03:08:23.615 How those 2 devices are bridged, I don't think is in the regime of the utility, the utilities role in this to my understanding as to specify what a safe and to ensure that the interconnection agreement. 694 Regnier, Justin 03:08:24.214 --> 03:08:25.234 It is not violated. 695 Roger Salas SCE 03:08:28.714 --> 03:08:29.044 I mean. 696 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:29.974 --> 03:08:30.214 This is. 697 Regnier, Justin 03:08:30.214 --> 03:08:30.514 And. 698 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:31.864 --> 03:08:33.034 Kind of follow up. 699 Regnier, Justin 03:08:33.034 --> 03:08:34.654 Follow up on your company. 700 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:34.744 --> 03:08:36.034 I, I think what I. 701 Regnier, Justin 03:08:36.034 --> 03:08:36.904 I think I. 702 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:36.904 --> 03:08:42.664 It was really a presentation that shows that the function is 3 3. 703 Regnier, Justin 03:08:43.624 --> 03:08:44.194 Bye. 704 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:44.284 --> 03:08:45.424 The, the gateway. 705 Regnier, Justin 03:08:45.784 --> 03:08:46.504 Okay. 706 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:46.534 --> 03:08:47.404 In a scenario. 707 Regnier, Justin 03:08:47.644 --> 03:08:48.274 Scenario. 708 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:49.684 --> 03:08:50.194 Gateway. 709 Regnier, Justin 03:08:50.224 --> 03:08:50.794 Right. 710 Regnier, Justin 03:08:52.414 --> 03:08:53.434 Directly. 711 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:53.434 --> 03:08:54.514 The smart verdict. 712 Regnier, Justin 03:08:54.514 --> 03:08:54.994 Smart. 713 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:54.994 --> 03:08:56.794 Vertical perspective it's not. 714 Regnier, Justin 03:08:56.974 --> 03:08:57.784 It's not. 715 Yi Li SDG&E 03:08:57.784 --> 03:08:59.134 Scheduling a function is. 716 Regnier, Justin 03:08:59.134 --> 03:09:01.114 There are there. 717 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:01.744 --> 03:09:02.854 So, I don't know what you mean. 718 Regnier, Justin 03:09:02.974 --> 03:09:03.904 I don't know what you mean. 719 Tam Hunt GPI 03:09:06.424 --> 03:09:07.564 Echo going on. 720 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:08.794 --> 03:09:12.304 Yeah, I think just the may have to mute. Yeah. Sorry. 721 Regnier, Justin 03:09:12.814 --> 03:09:15.634 Sorry, I wasn't muted. Somebody else might not from me. 722 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:18.424 --> 03:09:38.794 Okay, uh, I don't think I hear an echo now. Maybe we're good. Anyhow. Um, that's just my 1st question and my 2nd, question is, do we all collectively agree that in order to implement, we wouldn't require a the functional element to be available, be the. 723 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:38.854 --> 03:09:45.424 The standard to be available and certification to be available. Do we have agreement on that point? 724 Regnier, Justin 03:09:48.455 --> 03:09:49.985 They're both available today. 725 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:51.574 --> 03:09:52.444 That's properly. 726 Regnier, Justin 03:09:52.834 --> 03:09:53.374 Properly. 727 Yi Li SDG&E 03:09:53.734 --> 03:09:59.464 What John was just saying that they're still working on the scheduling portion. The standard is still. 728 Regnier, Justin 03:09:59.464 --> 03:10:06.424 They're available within different certification regimes. They're working at integrating the 2 into 1. 729 Yi Li SDG&E 03:10:10.445 --> 03:10:11.255 Joe, can you. 730 Yi Li SDG&E 03:10:12.875 --> 03:10:19.445 Understanding, I'm not hearing the same from what Justin was describing versus what you described earlier. 731 John Berdner Enphase 03:10:21.515 --> 03:10:33.785 Yeah, um, I think part of the confusion here is and I, I apologize for making it even more confusing, but there are actually 3 things we're talking about. 1. 732 John Berdner Enphase 03:10:34.234 --> 03:10:36.694 Is a schedule. 733 John Berdner Enphase 03:10:38.404 --> 03:10:59.164 2 is being able to control the export, uh, level at the PCCC, and essentially make it load following. So that changes in load or changes in generation at the site wouldn't exceed the export limit. That's the 2nd function. The 3rd thing that we're talking about is a way. 734 John Berdner Enphase 03:10:59.555 --> 03:11:20.315 Of communicating, um, that schedule, using a standardized protocol, such as 2030.5. so we have a way to control the export at the today to we have a way to schedule it using 2030. 735 John Berdner Enphase 03:11:20.404 --> 03:11:39.874 And to send a scheduled export limit to the D, your, at where PCs would pick it up and then, um, uh, use that value as a static value until the gateway received another scheduled. 736 John Berdner Enphase 03:11:41.764 --> 03:12:02.614 Those 2 pieces exist. What, uh, what, uh, is, uh, kind of missing here is a way to send a recurring schedule using 2030 dot 5 and having a PCs run the recurring schedule. So, 20, 30, 35. 737 John Berdner Enphase 03:12:02.644 --> 03:12:23.734 Scheduling doesn't work that way the concept of recurrence is not there as Gordon says, it's based on number of seconds since whatever date and when that time arrives, then it will execute that scheduled event. But once the event is executed, you can't say, do the exact same thing tomorrow. You have to send it another. 738 John Berdner Enphase 03:12:23.769 --> 03:12:40.684 Event, so there's a concurrence of 3 different things that we're trying to get to happen. Uh, today we have 2 of the things 1 and and 1 in, in the where we're going with the. 739 John Berdner Enphase 03:12:40.744 --> 03:13:01.804 D, is to add a recurring schedule, um, so that you could say, you know, every day in February at this time, do that at this time, do something else that's the next level of functionality. The 3rd thing to tackle, which is not currently being contemplated in. 740 John Berdner Enphase 03:13:01.839 --> 03:13:22.594 He says is a way to communicate that schedule using a standardized protocol like, 2032.5, it would require a revision of 2035 to support the concept of recurrence. So that we have 22 of the 3 legs. 741 John Berdner Enphase 03:13:23.224 --> 03:13:26.734 Stool but we don't have all 3 legs. 742 Roger Salas SCE 03:13:28.804 --> 03:13:29.824 Hey, John made. 743 Regnier, Justin 03:13:34.384 --> 03:13:37.114 Oh, yeah, so. 744 Regnier, Justin 03:13:38.704 --> 03:13:59.554 I appreciate that insight from John, and I know that we're tasking the of determining which functional elements are already present. It may make sense for the and manufacturers to collaborate to describe what are already present, commercial available and murders because the, the. 745 Regnier, Justin 03:13:59.704 --> 03:14:19.474 Work that jumps into people's minds on here is a gateway or an aggregator mediated communication because that that kind of provides a scheduling function and gives the commands to the, the devices that source the power of the smarter and groups of smart converters. 746 Regnier, Justin 03:14:21.274 --> 03:14:41.554 Without, depending on having to send it out real time, um, it, it may make sense for the I used to work with manufacturers to understand whether that functionality is already commonly a part of the, the equipment that's out in the field. 747 Roger Salas SCE 03:14:48.964 --> 03:15:08.344 Justin, I think for that, and I think that was kind of the intent of having this slide because we had a lot of questions. And I think this discussion is bringing a little more clarity. So so, I don't know. I mean, maybe, you know, I don't want to I don't want to offer you up John, but it'd be good if. 748 Roger Salas SCE 03:15:08.764 --> 03:15:29.884 Maybe we can work together to figure out how better understanding as to, what is possible with the technology that's out there cause I'm, I'm hearing sometimes. Yes sometimes no. Uh, we're ready. We're not ready. So maybe be a good idea to take this topic, uh, out of the discussion and and today and maybe we'll coordinate. 749 Roger Salas SCE 03:15:29.915 --> 03:15:39.935 John in in another industry members that would want to join us and let's just figure out how to figure out what is available today and whether or not can be done. 750 John Berdner Enphase 03:15:41.735 --> 03:16:02.315 So, I'd be glad to to help, um, I'd also kind of volunteer Brian, uh, uh, because he hosts, uh, industry forum meeting on Fridays that is pretty well attended by all the manufacturers. So that could be another good forum to have that. 751 John Berdner Enphase 03:16:02.344 --> 03:16:02.914 Discussion. 752 Alex Mwaura 03:16:06.065 --> 03:16:16.745 So, just to be, uh, can you hear me? Oh, so so I think I think we can move on to the next slide. But again, I. 753 Alex Mwaura 03:16:18.064 --> 03:16:38.164 This slide is pointing to the challenges and, you know, to Roger point, we've learned quite a bit from this discussion. Today. The question I have is what's the end goal if we explore these other options? And if they all have to, like, John, as described, it all comes down to being able to tie back to the PCs. 754 Alex Mwaura 03:16:38.979 --> 03:17:00.124 Pcs standard, as far as scheduling is being developed, as we speak, um, John mentioned, maybe next quarter might be valuable. So, is the intent here to offer another pathway for implementing with, you know, functions 38, uh, certified equipment plus a. 755 Alex Mwaura 03:17:00.605 --> 03:17:20.825 Or are we trying to see if we can get ahead of the standards and use something that's already available? Cause it doesn't sound like what John's describing is available today. So, is the is the idea to use a, a process to come up with an alternative to. 756 Alex Mwaura 03:17:21.364 --> 03:17:31.984 You're already existing PCs with the new schedule function approved, or to come up with something that can be used. In the meantime as this PCs standard is being developed. 757 Regnier, Justin 03:17:35.495 --> 03:17:52.775 Alex, I wouldn't, I don't think John was saying that it's not available today and I think there was a discussion that he just had in terms of having Brian speak to his manufacturers to find out whether it's actually available in equivalent that you can buy today. 758 Alex Mwaura 03:17:53.405 --> 03:17:54.095 I believe. 759 Regnier, Justin 03:17:54.095 --> 03:17:55.595 Resolution and. 760 Regnier, Justin 03:17:57.064 --> 03:18:02.824 So, the resolution requested the, I use to find out whether it was or not. So I think we're, we're in that process. 761 Yi Li SDG&E 03:18:05.554 --> 03:18:25.714 Describing was that for this chair we have 2 legs and Jones and others are actively working on making that the last leg available for those 2 work in live Alice comment. I'm I'm just wondering, like, for oh, you are we still trying to verify if this is actually missing or. 762 Yi Li SDG&E 03:18:26.465 --> 03:18:32.435 Are we trying to fast track the creation of, like, 3 or are we trying to, like, create an artificial leg and make it work? 763 Alex Mwaura 03:18:36.095 --> 03:18:50.525 Thanks tiana. Maybe maybe John should clarify. I believe Justin, to your point, he did say that what is not currently currently available is the ability to send a schedule to a using 2030 dot 5 join. Is that a correct statement? 764 John Berdner Enphase 03:18:56.795 --> 03:19:14.015 Where, to use a scheduled, uh, um, to transmit a schedule to a, which would then go into the PCs. And that would be the limit. What isn't available today. 765 John Berdner Enphase 03:19:14.079 --> 03:19:34.444 Is a way to load a, um, recurring schedule into the, and have it just automatically, you know, do the same thing. So, if you, if you were to say, well, I have a schedule with 24 values, uh, for February 1st. 766 John Berdner Enphase 03:19:35.254 --> 03:19:55.654 You would need to then send another 24 values on February 2nd, and another 24 values on, on, uh, you know, the 3rd and so on. So what what, what doesn't exist as a way to transmit? Because she said remember is limited to 24 values today. 767 John Berdner Enphase 03:19:56.525 --> 03:20:17.495 That doesn't mean, it couldn't be a higher number of of scheduled events that are supported, but you only get 24. so if you were to say, I want a, our, you know, a daily schedule, 24 values for each day under. You'd have to transmit that same schedule. Every day, and then the PCs could follow it today. 768 Regnier, Justin 03:20:20.704 --> 03:20:38.674 That maybe Gordon can clarify I think that's the extent to which it's tested, but manufacturers may have a greater number of values within their, within their system. And I think the, to the 3rd leg discussion, what we're talking about is whether it can do. 769 Regnier, Justin 03:20:38.705 --> 03:20:44.615 Autonomous autonomously not, and as long as there's a network connection, it can do it. Um. 770 John Berdner Enphase 03:20:46.024 --> 03:21:06.874 Correct and the, the, so the, the autonomy where you send the schedule once, and the says great, I've got it. I'll keep doing the same thing over and over and over again until you tell me to do something different. That's the piece that's missing. So, within the our approach. 771 John Berdner Enphase 03:21:06.905 --> 03:21:28.025 To say we're going to not define how the schedule gets loaded into the because 2030 dot py doesn't support a recurring autonomous schedule. So we just said, we're gonna say it magically appeared in there, um, ideal you know, it will probably. 772 John Berdner Enphase 03:21:28.054 --> 03:21:49.174 Come from the installer and the manufacturers having a tool to load a schedule into the deal. But in the future, I would anticipate a revision of 2030.5 and perhaps the MP 3, and maybe 547 to support the concept of a. 773 John Berdner Enphase 03:21:49.180 --> 03:21:57.005 Autonomous recurring schedule, so it's not just within the URL. 774 John Berdner Enphase 03:21:57.725 --> 03:22:17.255 If you want to define the utilities will transmit it electronically to the, that the will say, yes, I have it. And and then start running it. That's kind of where that's the 3rd leg of the stool that's missing. So we have it in. We. 775 John Berdner Enphase 03:22:17.915 --> 03:22:18.665 Transmit it. 776 John Berdner Enphase 03:22:18.904 --> 03:22:19.354 Right now. 777 Regnier, Justin 03:22:22.474 --> 03:22:42.424 I would just note that when PG E is talking about the, the numbers of the inverters that were getting certified to communications, the direct communication between whatever the 2030.5 head was. 778 Regnier, Justin 03:22:42.785 --> 03:23:01.835 Straight to the inverter is is rare. The vast majority of of the folks are getting certified with some device in the middle that are that is mediating the communication that device may also serve as scheduling function. We just don't know not that we're trying to find out. 779 Frances Cleveland 03:23:03.515 --> 03:23:03.815 Yeah. 780 Frances Cleveland 03:23:04.175 --> 03:23:25.055 I do want to just add and I put it in the chat, um, using the Mesa, uh, NEC, uh, capabilities, or naming conventions has all of that scheduling capability. It's about to become I triple. 781 Frances Cleveland 03:23:25.083 --> 03:23:37.743 115.2, so it's about to become an standard, uh, granted, it's not 2030.5, but for the larger. 782 Frances Cleveland 03:23:38.374 --> 03:23:49.324 Uh, I think to the PCs is a viable option and is being used in a number of cases. 783 Alex Mwaura 03:23:56.855 --> 03:24:11.945 All right, thank you. So, I think, uh, to Rogers point, we probably need to get the and, uh, manufacturers on the same page, probably, uh, and add us to have a discussion of. 784 Alex Mwaura 03:24:13.024 --> 03:24:27.154 How we can make this function made function 3+uh, certified equipment plus the commercially available, uh, BCS today implement. I think that's the task. 785 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:24:28.834 --> 03:24:34.114 Okay, so that sounds like an action item. I know. Uh, John, you volunteer, Brian, but. 786 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:24:34.174 --> 03:24:37.624 Did not hear Brian, uh, speak up. 787 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:24:41.854 --> 03:24:42.334 And. 788 Brian Lydic - IREC 03:24:42.334 --> 03:24:43.384 Need to take that back. 789 Brian Lydic - IREC 03:24:45.485 --> 03:24:55.385 The piggy group, I'm not entirely clear on what the direction is, but, yeah, if we can create an action item to try and address within the next few weeks, be happy. 790 Regnier, Justin 03:24:56.255 --> 03:24:56.825 Discussed it. 791 Regnier, Justin 03:24:58.294 --> 03:25:00.784 Can you tell us what the acronym is? Because it's a cool 1. 792 Brian Lydic - IREC 03:25:02.615 --> 03:25:05.645 The forum inverter grid, integration issues. 793 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:25:09.094 --> 03:25:28.954 And, uh, 1 request, uh, who will be taking point in setting up these meetings uh, basically, uh, energy division, Justin and myself. And, uh, possibly Frank, uh, may, uh, want to be involved in, in. 794 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:25:29.194 --> 03:25:35.914 Who from the utility will be taking pointing coordinating with John and Brian lyric and anybody else that's interested. 795 Roger Salas SCE 03:25:39.214 --> 03:25:41.134 I can take that. I shouldn't say this is Roger. 796 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:25:41.584 --> 03:25:48.184 Okay, Roger, thank you. Make sure you include Justin myself and our new team member. Uh, Frank Calvin. 797 Roger Salas SCE 03:25:49.294 --> 03:25:53.884 Yeah, if you can send me if you can send me those email address to whom you want to be added, that'd be great. 798 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:25:54.544 --> 03:25:55.684 Okay, we'll do. 799 Alex Mwaura 03:25:59.795 --> 03:26:07.835 So, what did you agree that, in light of, uh, discussion today and the additional information that this slide would probably need to be revised anyway as far as, like. 800 Roger Salas SCE 03:26:08.195 --> 03:26:18.455 That's Ryan and ultimately, I think that was our intent. I mean, I think the utilities, we always thought that we will have a really good conversation on these lights. So that was achieved. 801 Roger Salas SCE 03:26:18.514 --> 03:26:22.984 Yeah, I think we'll, we'll come back once we have the output of that that are the working group. 802 Alex Mwaura 03:26:24.154 --> 03:26:39.574 And then the, the last point on this slide, I use Labs do not provide certification services for the year was the direct response to a comment that was provided by Jose I think he had mentioned from the CPC. I don't I'm not sure if you. 803 Alex Mwaura 03:26:39.639 --> 03:26:58.444 Say that at the comment, but it had to do with why why don't we satisfy or test equipment in our Labs. Right? So, I think this point was just trying to get send. We're trying to make a point that we don't actually satisfied the, our equipment in our respective lab. So. 804 Regnier, Justin 03:27:00.484 --> 03:27:00.784 I was. 805 Regnier, Justin 03:27:00.814 --> 03:27:06.214 Probably guilty on that 1 and my intent was more of the. 806 Regnier, Justin 03:27:06.485 --> 03:27:13.985 Point out that the have the means at their disposal to understand the safety and the functionality of equipment not to certified. 807 Alex Mwaura 03:27:17.524 --> 03:27:18.334 Okay, understood. 808 Alex Mwaura 03:27:20.674 --> 03:27:22.264 Are there any other questions on this slide? 809 Alex Mwaura 03:27:28.954 --> 03:27:30.754 If not, we can move on to the next slide. 810 Alex Mwaura 03:27:37.834 --> 03:27:38.704 Next slide please. 811 Alex Mwaura 03:27:41.224 --> 03:27:43.864 Restaurant from PG E will go over this slide. 812 Rustom Dessai 03:27:46.445 --> 03:27:48.125 Yes, hi, this. Can you hear me. 813 Michael Barigian SCE 03:27:52.474 --> 03:27:53.044 Yes. 814 Rustom Dessai 03:27:53.104 --> 03:28:11.284 Okay, great. Um, so there was a question around discussing terms project, um, and findings and how it affects the discuss, how that information will be leveraged. And if not, why not and what for the research is needed. So, uh, kind of the high level. 815 Rustom Dessai 03:28:11.314 --> 03:28:32.434 Points here, you know, our terms project epic 303 we weren't able to test the full profile. Um, I think we've discussed the challenges we had, and just implementing the basic telemetry functions for 23.5 and getting that rolled out the door. That kind of ate up. Most of that. 816 Rustom Dessai 03:28:32.464 --> 03:28:36.094 Projects time and budget. 817 Rustom Dessai 03:28:37.055 --> 03:28:57.815 But we did test some limited control functionality, um, but not to the full extent of trying to do an profile. So, what we did prove out was that we could implement, uh, a single constraint fire communications, but not a full profile. So, um, like Gordon described. 818 Rustom Dessai 03:28:57.843 --> 03:29:18.963 Said you set, like, a start time and a duration so we were able to set a start time and a duration for, um, basically Ahmad fixed watt, which is actually mapped to the Max what function in that inverter and show that that worked. So, again, this is just a single. 819 Rustom Dessai 03:29:19.175 --> 03:29:40.115 Scheduled constant, um, Max, what type schedule so that was able to work, but, you know, our certified server um, even though it certified in the user interface for us, didn't have a way to schedule more. 820 Rustom Dessai 03:29:40.119 --> 03:30:01.264 More than 1 schedule at a time. So, like we talked about today, we would have to be able to schedule basically, 24 different events to be able to implement some type of profile. Um, so we're not able to do that in that setup with the current vendor based on the. 821 Rustom Dessai 03:30:01.294 --> 03:30:12.724 Face, even though it did pass, sees it testing, um, maybe I'll stop there if there's any questions on the 1st part. 822 Rustom Dessai 03:30:22.054 --> 03:30:27.064 Okay, so, in terms of further research needed, um. 823 Rustom Dessai 03:30:29.495 --> 03:30:44.585 You know, there's more testing needed to confirm or develop this methods to schedule multiple limits if not using a PCs certification. I think you've already heard that, you know, our preference would be PCs certification but if, you know, there's questions about not using the. 824 Rustom Dessai 03:31:05.495 --> 03:31:25.865 Um, versus our communicating type, uh, type device, um, we're also mentioning that, you know, it should probably done be done for a specific inverter and Gateway combination. Um, just because of kind of the issues we've seen. 825 Rustom Dessai 03:31:26.284 --> 03:31:47.014 Of, um, kind of interoperability, so just making sure that whatever the customer is applying for, that that kind of setup is actually tested if they're not using, like, a PTs certificate. And then also, I think, like, we've talked about if we're not if there's. 826 Rustom Dessai 03:31:47.134 --> 03:31:56.854 Other loads at the site, and we need to do something at the in terms of, um, curtailing the load or cortona degeneration. You know. 827 Rustom Dessai 03:31:56.914 --> 03:32:18.034 This would also need to be tested, um, specifically for that set up. If we're not using a PCs. Uh, I think the overall thought here is, you know, is kind of the way forward, but if, if that's not being done, you'd have to do these other types of tests to be able to either do something by. 828 Rustom Dessai 03:32:18.064 --> 03:32:25.414 Mutual agreement, like, was discussed before or this other way for a utility to verify that this is working properly. 829 Rustom Dessai 03:32:26.884 --> 03:32:34.294 But, like we talked about earlier, I think we think the most efficient way forward is is using PCs and going through that process. 830 Rustom Dessai 03:32:39.364 --> 03:32:41.194 Any any questions. 831 Rustom Dessai 03:32:59.194 --> 03:33:01.744 Okay um, Alex, I'll hand it back to you then. 832 Alex Mwaura 03:33:02.794 --> 03:33:04.774 Okay, thank you. Uh, next slide please. 833 Alex Mwaura 03:33:08.134 --> 03:33:26.524 So, for this slide, I use attempted to go over the implementation process. Uh, so this is for projects. The question is, uh, I, you shall also establish a mechanism for validating proposed profiles if the implementation of this mechanism is not feasible. 834 Alex Mwaura 03:33:27.664 --> 03:33:48.274 You shall clearly articulate the reasons. So step number 1, the customer will submit the profile using an agreed upon template that I use will show what the proposal is in slides that are coming up. But at some point, we'll. 835 Alex Mwaura 03:33:48.304 --> 03:34:07.654 Have an agreement on a template that we'll use. And the idea is that the customers will be able to get this template either by downloading it from, you know, the, or from the application portal or somewhere but it will be. They'll, they'll have access to it. They'll fill in their profile and then they'll submit that to the. 836 Alex Mwaura 03:34:09.605 --> 03:34:30.305 Will verify that the profile that the customer has submitted, uh, essentially meets is using the most updated results if it's not, we'll be able to update the IC results. Uh, this is allowed and the working group 2 and 3 once we. 837 Alex Mwaura 03:34:30.633 --> 03:34:51.723 Have the most up to date I see. Uh, values will verify that the customer profile is below 90% of the profile. And if so then the customer can prove it can proceed to the connection using if the customer is not, uh, the customer. 838 Alex Mwaura 03:34:51.754 --> 03:35:12.874 Profiles not compliant, meaning that it's not below the 90% of the ACA profile then we will give a customer an ability to rectify that issue. And if they do not, and I will proceed with the application, assuming that it's using, rather than use. 839 Alex Mwaura 03:35:12.904 --> 03:35:13.774 Being a profile. 840 Alex Mwaura 03:35:17.374 --> 03:35:18.274 Any questions. 841 Tam Hunt GPI 03:35:22.415 --> 03:35:40.775 I have a question, Alex, um, going back to my earlier comments or question, um, given the use of now in the screening process. A project can, as we discussed earlier, opt to use instead of the 15% limit on the screen. 842 Tam Hunt GPI 03:35:41.733 --> 03:36:02.223 Traditionally, if a project failed fast track because of it would then be given an option to go to something a review and on a screen N, there's a much broader or flexible analysis done by the utility. And in many cases, even if you fail screen and you can still pass screen and under the more. 843 Tam Hunt GPI 03:36:02.229 --> 03:36:09.124 Approach, can you explain how the use of the limit has affected that process if at all. 844 Alex Mwaura 03:36:10.804 --> 03:36:31.834 So so, so today there's 3 ways that projects can be analyzed in the screen name. 1st 1 is using a typical PV profile. 2nd 1 is using which with a single value using the or and the operation of flexibility. I see a value. 845 Alex Mwaura 03:36:31.840 --> 03:36:52.985 90% of that number or 90% of, uh, static grid. And if I see is not available, then the customer would default to the 15 Central. So if you're using 15%, it will follow the same process as before if is available. And the customer fails screen am using. 846 Alex Mwaura 03:36:53.014 --> 03:37:13.834 So, in the example, where they're using a single value for, or if if the file screen name, it will then proceed to supplemental review in supplemental review under screening. There's a specific criteria that we would follow. So, if the project I believe is not above 100 of then you can still pass. 847 Alex Mwaura 03:37:15.514 --> 03:37:26.854 We would still do a lot for if it's above 100 or up to 100. I forget the exact wording but this, you know, if they these, uh, uh, just above 90%, but less than 100%. 848 Alex Mwaura 03:37:29.765 --> 03:37:50.795 Established criteria in the terror on how screen, and will be analyzed if the project is using and I don't know that off the top of my head, but there is a process that you would follow what's not in there is projects because obviously we have not developed cherry language that apply to projects, but my guess is. 849 Alex Mwaura 03:37:50.799 --> 03:37:58.234 That you probably follow the same process for projects that are using or screen M analysis. 850 Tam Hunt GPI 03:37:59.434 --> 03:38:11.824 Thanks for that. And I'll make a comment then we can go offline on this. Um, because of course fast track is historical used not only for projects, not requiring upgrades. It does allow some upgrades. 851 Tam Hunt GPI 03:38:12.154 --> 03:38:33.094 So, typically, when you go through the study process, even when it's fast tracked, you get back the results, you're given the, uh, cost breakdown to what it would cost to interconnect and includes some upgrades. And it sounds like what you're saying here is that is being used in a way where is preventing any project that uses the IC limit to get through fast track if any upgrades are needed is that correct? Or is that not. 852 Tam Hunt GPI 03:38:33.125 --> 03:38:33.425 Saying. 853 Alex Mwaura 03:38:34.145 --> 03:38:54.155 Uh, don't believe that's what I'm saying. So, if you, if a project uses and goes to is the project applies to fast track then we would use whatever screens were studied as part of would be applicable. The screens that are not would not be applicable. So, if any other screen, if they pass screen, em, they fail. 854 Alex Mwaura 03:38:54.249 --> 03:39:15.394 Any other screen that is not part of voicea. They may still need to go through, like, a supplemental review, but if they pass all the screens on the screen, they fail is the screen. Em, you could go to supplemental review. And again, I don't have the language in front of me, but there's a way to analyze screen and specifically for projects that are with the. 855 Alex Mwaura 03:39:15.485 --> 03:39:18.215 100% of the. 856 Alex Mwaura 03:39:18.905 --> 03:39:39.365 Values, but you can still provide mitigations even at the initial review level, right? If you can determine because what happens is if you look at the tariff, you only go to supplemental review if you cannot determine what the mitigations are. Once you determine, you can either connect a project for fast track if it's a simplified interconnection or if you can determine what. 857 Alex Mwaura 03:39:39.394 --> 03:39:40.384 The mitigations are. 858 Tam Hunt GPI 03:39:43.775 --> 03:39:45.725 Yeah, I'll follow up with you offline on that. Thank you. 859 Alex Mwaura 03:39:46.715 --> 03:39:50.255 Yeah, this feel free to jump in with the other items. If you have anything to add. 860 Alex Mwaura 03:40:03.124 --> 03:40:04.984 Okay, any other questions. 861 Alex Mwaura 03:40:14.554 --> 03:40:18.964 And time I'll find the language from the Terry from pasted in the chat, um, for screen. 862 Tam Hunt GPI 03:40:19.744 --> 03:40:20.194 Thank you. 863 Alex Mwaura 03:40:23.045 --> 03:40:26.645 Okay, if there's no other questions, this concludes my portion of the presentation. Thank you. 864 Michael Barigian SCE 03:40:34.235 --> 03:40:49.865 All right thanks, Alex. Uh, this is Michael bring in from. I believe I'm up next if we can advance the slide. Please and while we're doing that, uh, since I am new to this form and likely to many on this group, just want to take a minute to introduce myself again. This is Michael. I'm with. 865 Michael Barigian SCE 03:40:50.704 --> 03:41:10.984 We recently went through a reorganization that has placed me as a senior engineering manager of a newly formed team. It's called distribution policy and implementation. So, once we're able to build out our staffing and transition work, my team, um, is going to be involved in. So this rule 21 proceeding, micro grid IDR successor. 866 Michael Barigian SCE 03:41:11.019 --> 03:41:22.624 And demand, flexibility proceedings, um, and perhaps others, um, so looking forward to the conversation here and in working with many of you in this. So, with that, I'll jump into topic f. 867 Michael Barigian SCE 03:41:26.404 --> 03:41:46.264 If you could have, please, thank you. So, this slide is just an 85,230 to kind of set the stage for what we're addressing in the following slides. Um, so key kind of takeaways from this is that the decision did not specify that the monthly profile was limited to only 1 value. However, the bolded. 868 Michael Barigian SCE 03:41:46.269 --> 03:42:07.414 Uh, you know, states that the adopted 288 hour format includes 24 values for each of the 12 months of the year essentially, this amounts to customers submitting the same value 24 times a month on a monthly basis for a year when 1 value would suffice the IO user directed to discuss this 208 hour format, which we will in subsequent slides and how it may allow for more than. 869 Michael Barigian SCE 03:42:07.420 --> 03:42:28.535 1 value per month, there is an expectation that since 4 years have passed since the working group 2 report was filed that the would have more information and experience available for how to allow this. And we are directed to discuss our learnings and best practices in these workshops and propose how we could potentially implement more than 1 value per month. 870 Michael Barigian SCE 03:42:30.243 --> 03:42:30.873 Excellent. 871 Michael Barigian SCE 03:42:34.744 --> 03:42:53.944 So, this is really kind of a tee up for what we're gonna cover, but in summary, the position is to maintain that we will implement in a way that was consistent with the decision. The bolded statement that we, we just covered on the last slide. And that is the adopted 208 hour format includes 24 values per month for each 12 months. 872 Michael Barigian SCE 03:42:53.949 --> 03:42:59.074 That's essentially the same value 24 times a month on a monthly basis to cover the year. 873 Michael Barigian SCE 03:43:01.744 --> 03:43:19.624 Discuss why we feel this is appropriate at this time talk about necessary elements needed to allow more than 1 unique value per month. And then we will present, um, on some data analysis that we've completed in response to the discussion at the smart, uh, recent smarter working group meeting next slide. 874 Michael Barigian SCE 03:43:24.124 --> 03:43:41.884 All right, so to level set, uh, the 1st bullet is really just to re, emphasize that the, uh, have responsibility for and commitment to safety and reliability of our system. Um, safety expanded to include our customers and our personnel and that the. 875 Michael Barigian SCE 03:43:41.889 --> 03:44:03.034 The advent of a limited generation profile interconnection option does not change that commitment and responsibility. There was some, uh, I perceived some confusion on what exactly. Goes into the generation. So, the 2nd bullet here clarifies that the generation uses a circuit load profile, um, at least in the case of. 876 Michael Barigian SCE 03:44:03.039 --> 03:44:24.184 E, that's based on 12 months of historical circuit loading data and when the is performed, it utilizes the topology of the circuit at the time that those calculations are performed. So that that topology could change, um, in the next day in the next week. Uh, which would then per process, trigger the circuit to be refreshed for. 877 Michael Barigian SCE 03:44:24.189 --> 03:44:45.334 The ca, results, the key takeaway that I want to emphasize on bullet 2. here is something I hope we can all agree on here. Is that these historical circuit load profiles that are fed into are not accurate predictors of what? The real time grid conditions will be at a granular level 100% of the time and to. 878 Michael Barigian SCE 03:44:45.365 --> 03:45:06.455 By what I mean, by that the hourly loading that was used for just assume it was performed today the hourly loading that was observed on January 15th at 30 PM 2023 is not, or should not be expected to be 100% accurate. The circuit loading that's going to be observed on the same date in the following year. 879 Michael Barigian SCE 03:45:06.514 --> 03:45:27.604 For the years that follow, so, where the risk kind of emerges is, if that real time circuit loaded loading during a given month, an hour is less than the circuit loading that was used for that month, an hour, um, when calculating the static grid IC values when the. 880 Michael Barigian SCE 03:45:27.664 --> 03:45:48.394 The is interconnecting the values that the is basing the proposed schedule on. There's an increase likelihood that the system could experience voltage or thermal criteria violations. Um, and the bigger the difference. So, the bigger the difference, uh, between the real time circuit loading that's experienced once the circuit, once the is connected to the system. 881 Michael Barigian SCE 03:45:48.814 --> 03:46:09.934 And the, when compared to the circuit loading that was used to produce the values on which the was based on, um, they'll higher the likelihood that you're gonna see an unexpected criteria violation occur. Uh, there was some discussion in the smart order working group about, you know, Ken circuit load actually declined, does it actually declined. 882 Michael Barigian SCE 03:46:09.964 --> 03:46:30.664 Year over year, um, it does, it candidate does and the analysis that we've completed demonstrates that that, in in many cases that the load can go down, um, adding nodal level and again, remembering that I see is performed at the 3 phase circuit note here. So, some examples of that, I mean, there's the gradual lower impact, you know. 883 Michael Barigian SCE 03:46:31.235 --> 03:46:52.235 Change which could be adoption of more energy, efficient appliances. There's the sudden and severe impact of say, a business changing or completely ceasing operation. So, a manufacturing facility that, uh, shuts down and and vacated a building. And maybe that building turns into a warehouse. It doesn't use nearly as much energy, um, or just real time customer operations. 884 Michael Barigian SCE 03:46:52.264 --> 03:47:12.754 So, um, a piece of equipment for a large commercial customer goes down, and they need to do some emergency maintenance until they can bring it back online. So those are just some examples of changes that could occur on a circuit that result in the real time circuit loading, being less than the load that was used to compute the static grid values. 885 Michael Barigian SCE 03:47:13.714 --> 03:47:34.534 And the reason that's important, the low decreasing is because generally, speaking, the lowest static grid value that occurs in each month is driven by the lowest circuit circuit loading for each month. So, if you look at the circular profile that you feed into, I would say there's a high problem that the lowest. 886 Michael Barigian SCE 03:47:34.564 --> 03:47:55.654 Ics value is going to occur at the same time that the lowest circuit load occurs. So, um, you know, the, the takeaway here as it relates to 12 versus 208 profiles for, is that, you know, the probability of the real time circuit loading. 887 Michael Barigian SCE 03:47:55.714 --> 03:48:15.514 Falling below the historic lowest circuit loading value for each month is, we believe significantly less than the real time circuit loading, being below the historic lowest circuit loading value for 24 hours each month. So that's where the risk, uh, kind of comes from here and, uh, question. 888 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:48:16.024 --> 03:48:16.684 Yes. 889 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:48:16.840 --> 03:48:37.985 Jose energy division, so I know the decision adopted a 10%, but back in 920, no parties had really done an analysis. Like it's been presented today and in your case will be presented later on. 890 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:48:37.989 --> 03:48:59.104 So, my question is, would a higher buffer. Would that alleviate any of the problems? Because now we're talking about whether a higher buffer, instead of just 1015 or 20% would that make things. 891 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:48:59.164 --> 03:49:06.934 Better, and, you know, would it make utilization of the capacity, you know, more viable. 892 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 03:49:09.184 --> 03:49:11.194 Yeah, totally sending me such analysis. 893 Michael Barigian SCE 03:49:12.004 --> 03:49:30.154 Yeah, thanks for that that question, Jose so at least on side, we haven't done a sensitivity analysis around what is the increased risk, or likelihood of an unexpected criteria violation based on varying, uh, buffers. The only analysis we've done is assuming the 10%, but in theory, I would agree that the larger. 894 Michael Barigian SCE 03:49:30.185 --> 03:49:38.825 To the buffer, um, the lower the likelihood of experience, a, an unexpected criteria violation, and invite the other I'll use to chime in if they have thoughts on this as well. 895 Michael Barigian SCE 03:49:46.595 --> 03:49:47.855 I see a question from Justin. 896 Regnier, Justin 03:49:51.725 --> 03:50:03.845 Yeah, the benefit of getting the slides early, so looked ahead and it sounds like each of the use analysis is looking at a single randomly selected circuit. Is that correct? 897 Michael Barigian SCE 03:50:04.475 --> 03:50:05.525 Yeah, so that's the case. 898 Regnier, Justin 03:50:05.525 --> 03:50:07.055 For that's the case for. 899 Yi Li SDG&E 03:50:14.854 --> 03:50:15.544 This is the same. 900 Regnier, Justin 03:50:15.544 --> 03:50:16.714 It's difficult. 901 Regnier, Justin 03:50:19.925 --> 03:50:22.085 Pg E, the as well. 902 Alex Mwaura 03:50:22.385 --> 03:50:23.045 Yep. 903 Regnier, Justin 03:50:24.395 --> 03:50:26.585 Right. So we looked at 1 circuit. 904 Michael Barigian SCE 03:50:29.375 --> 03:50:30.425 We looked at 1. 905 Regnier, Justin 03:50:30.635 --> 03:50:37.385 1 note on 1 node on 1 circuit we look at 1 note on 1 circuit. 906 Regnier, Justin 03:50:39.694 --> 03:50:43.444 I would assert that maybe that's not enough to call. 907 Regnier, Justin 03:50:44.914 --> 03:50:57.304 To make statements, or about the probabilities being significantly less. I mean, probability is a very specific word in terms of art that involves statistics. 908 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:51:00.845 --> 03:51:01.565 Um. 909 Regnier, Justin 03:51:02.765 --> 03:51:05.585 Ronnie please. 910 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:51:05.615 --> 03:51:06.995 Yeah, we actually have a. 911 Regnier, Justin 03:51:07.025 --> 03:51:08.645 We actually have a slide. 912 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:51:08.795 --> 03:51:11.705 Which shows a. 913 Regnier, Justin 03:51:12.095 --> 03:51:12.605 Why. 914 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:51:12.635 --> 03:51:21.545 This is beyond the 1 circuit that we presented as an example, which shows, uh, I think to, to assess point with regards to. 915 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:51:21.574 --> 03:51:41.254 Circuits across the, the, uh, the entire territory that, uh, have a had a, uh, a circuit decrease of 10% or more. So so we can touch on that. Once we get to that slide, but just wanted to, uh, just wanted to point that out. 916 Regnier, Justin 03:51:43.024 --> 03:52:00.754 Right. Did you correlate that 10% reduction with the actual timeframe in which that reduction happened to establish that that creates a higher probability that going with the more granular profile would result in an overload condition. 917 Michael Barigian SCE 03:52:08.255 --> 03:52:09.515 Ronnie, I think you're muted. 918 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:52:15.993 --> 03:52:33.273 Yeah, we actually have an example that shows that correlation to 288 versus the, uh, the 12 values, but it actually didn't make it to this slide because we had a, a, a timeframe that we needed to submit the, uh, uh, the, the slides to you. So. 919 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:52:33.635 --> 03:52:38.885 Uh, but we do have and, uh, be happy to, uh, to show the, uh, the team here. 920 Regnier, Justin 03:52:39.305 --> 03:52:39.635 Yeah. 921 Roni Mejia - SCE 03:52:39.695 --> 03:52:40.265 They have time. 922 Regnier, Justin 03:52:40.325 --> 03:52:54.575 So, hold any further comment that I've got until you guys have gone through all of your your folks have gone through all of your slides. But I would caution you that you are on the record right now and that. You should be careful in your language that the. 923 Regnier, Justin 03:52:54.609 --> 03:53:07.324 Literal interpretation of your language holds up to scrutiny. If you're talking about probabilities. I would hope that you would have some kind of probabilistic analysis beside that. So. 924 Michael Barigian SCE 03:53:10.534 --> 03:53:15.754 Understood Thank you, Justin and thank you. Ronnie. All right. So that was. 925 Michael Barigian SCE 03:53:15.784 --> 03:53:24.964 Much the wrap on this slide we can go to the next slide. Please. And I think actually with this 1, I'm going to pass it over to, you. 926 Yi Li SDG&E 03:53:26.014 --> 03:53:27.034 Yeah, thanks, Michael. 927 Yi Li SDG&E 03:53:32.584 --> 03:53:51.004 Uh, sorry about this, uh, head situation I promise I do not look like this in real life. Uh, so we put together the structure of the slide to meet requirements from the 52 sorry resolution, but also intended. 928 Yi Li SDG&E 03:53:51.034 --> 03:54:12.124 Address from the question that we've received finance division 1 question we received was that we had a slide talking about some of the challenges that we have for implementing more granularity in the schedule. We talked about the equipment risks when we implement more granular schedule. So we hear by just kind of providing. 929 Yi Li SDG&E 03:54:12.215 --> 03:54:20.675 More detailed by what we meant in that description. So, do you have a heads up on this? Do you have a question? Where was that from earlier? 930 Regnier, Justin 03:54:21.335 --> 03:54:21.665 Yeah. 931 Yi Li SDG&E 03:54:21.905 --> 03:54:22.265 All right. 932 Yi Li SDG&E 03:54:23.494 --> 03:54:44.044 Gotcha. All right so, um, just to summarize as we kind of talked about a lot during today's meeting, uh, PCs I received multiple value profiles, utilize, functioning 3 and 8 in combination also in conjunction with the scheduling ability. So far hasn't been deployed in the field. So, we were asked about. 933 Yi Li SDG&E 03:54:44.645 --> 03:55:05.735 The working group to report was from a few years ago, why don't we have more knowledge and experience with that? But the reality is that we just do not have the operational experience with such use case in the field on the reliability of the equipment of this type of use case is unknown to us. And the risks that, when you consider design the scenario that, uh. 934 Yi Li SDG&E 03:55:05.739 --> 03:55:26.884 He asked fields to correctly implement this profile, uh, for our distribution system operation group. They'll have to identify address any resulting issue that's caused by that. And some of the emergency measures we have to take will have their own reliability risk and may not be sustainable for a long period of time. It can be costly and should be. 935 Yi Li SDG&E 03:55:26.914 --> 03:55:43.714 Way to when possible for example, if we have to turn off the circuit, you know, have to ask the generators, including those re, customer on the line to go completely off in order for us to investigate what's happening. And what caused the issue all that, you know, the risk that we do not want to be. 936 Yi Li SDG&E 03:55:45.245 --> 03:56:06.365 Go through, if we don't have to and going from Intel values to 288 values, there's more points. There's just more likelihood for that to happen. And to the extent that emerges measure may be necessary. So, just to clarify what we meant by the PCs equipment failure, and why we believe 288, there's some more value of that happening. 937 Yi Li SDG&E 03:56:07.954 --> 03:56:08.914 Any question. 938 Yi Li SDG&E 03:56:10.745 --> 03:56:14.075 Oh, I see a hands up from Tim. Go ahead. 939 Tam Hunt GPI 03:56:14.345 --> 03:56:31.385 Yeah, hi Tam on. Um, so looking at your your comment that gone from 12 values at 28 values, amplifies the possibility that emergency measures are required. Um, how, how do we get more clarity on what that means in terms of. 940 Tam Hunt GPI 03:56:32.434 --> 03:56:52.744 You know, cost and time frames and it's more generally how do we get from from here to the point where if the commission and parties agree they're going to 28 values makes sense. How do we get enough information from and other utilities to make that determination? And what's the timeframe for doing that? 941 Yi Li SDG&E 03:56:53.795 --> 03:56:57.995 Yeah, we actually have a slide on that I believe in maybe the next slide. 942 Tam Hunt GPI 03:56:58.175 --> 03:56:58.655 Okay. 943 Yi Li SDG&E 03:56:58.895 --> 03:57:01.415 Yeah, if we want to just want to talk about it, when we get there. 944 Yi Li SDG&E 03:57:04.234 --> 03:57:06.664 Uh, is there, Justin can you. 945 Regnier, Justin 03:57:08.764 --> 03:57:23.914 I do, um, so in this scenario, we're talking about where the PCs fails to correctly implemented, designated profile is this due to a network failure or? I guess I'm trying to understand what the. 946 Regnier, Justin 03:57:23.945 --> 03:57:29.075 Scenario we're talking about here that we're asserting that there is an amplification of possibility resulting from. 947 Yi Li SDG&E 03:57:30.545 --> 03:57:31.055 Uh. 948 Yi Li SDG&E 03:57:35.224 --> 03:57:54.274 Because of the power system control system, right? It's a control failure for most likely, because we're not anticipating that we're requiring a network in order to implement at this point. Right? It's just a localized control equipment. That's controlling folders. There's obviously interaction between the PCs and inverters. So, reliability of that. 949 Yi Li SDG&E 03:57:55.054 --> 03:58:15.514 Fours is also in question here, but just to give you an example, um, you know, a lot of times, even a really can fail so that has happened. Right that's a very robust piece of physical equipment uh, that could happen and not follow the, you know, really profile that has been inputted into the relay. So. 950 Yi Li SDG&E 03:58:17.045 --> 03:58:23.225 I don't know if that answers your question, but that's kind of 1 example of what we consider that could be possible happening with a physical equipment. 951 Regnier, Justin 03:58:26.044 --> 03:58:33.394 I'm just trying to understand how you go from that scenario to an assertion that the amp, there's an amplified. 952 Regnier, Justin 03:58:36.843 --> 03:58:46.083 I guess possible I, I don't know how possibilities getting amplified new probabilities. I don't I guess I'm just not following what you're trying to say. 953 Yi Li SDG&E 03:58:47.884 --> 03:59:08.254 I mean, maybe like, think of a random like analogy, and, uh, it may not be the best 1, right? If you're if you're, like, asking a human to, like, retail numbers, versus you're asking a human to recite 280 numbers, it's more likelihood for someone to make a mistake. It's the same thing when it comes to physical equipment, right? You're. 954 Yi Li SDG&E 03:59:08.284 --> 03:59:26.914 Putting more schedules and more settings into equipment, expecting the equipment you follow that the likelihood of this thing happening is not following the schedule can happen. I I don't know. Like, I also don't think that's a insertion by utility is just reality of how the equipment works. 955 Sky Stanfield 03:59:32.285 --> 03:59:33.995 This is sky. Can I jump in? 956 Yi Li SDG&E 03:59:35.049 --> 03:59:35.529 Course. 957 Sky Stanfield 03:59:35.734 --> 03:59:36.754 Yeah, so. 958 Sky Stanfield 03:59:37.984 --> 03:59:58.984 I I think there are a couple of things that and maybe just as justin's getting to live a little bit. Uh, I think, you know, we need to get through you guys as rest the presentation, which, I think helps play out what you guys are concerned about better than these early slides do. But the, um, we, you know, we've gone around about this issue with like, not trusting, sort of, by. 959 Sky Stanfield 03:59:59.044 --> 04:00:20.164 Prices for many years now, and in the initial PCs conversations we had as well. I think there are 2 things to remember here. 1 is, is that if you did a 12 month profile only, if it failed at any point, it could still be. It doesn't necessarily mean if, if it's the same device we're talking about doing the 12 months as as. 960 Sky Stanfield 04:00:20.170 --> 04:00:40.835 The 24 hour, +12 months profile, I'm not sure that it actually increases or is more dangerous to do the to mitigate profile because the 12 month profiles are setting the same value every day. And if it fails, you're still exposed to that same risk. Every day of that month necessarily, depending on how it. 961 Sky Stanfield 04:00:42.003 --> 04:01:02.463 That said separately, I think the other, I think that we need to recognize and deal with, rather than always building in actions that we won't take, because we're not sure about the devices is the utilities have the capability to simply turn the system off. If it's not complying with its interconnection agreement and you. 962 Sky Stanfield 04:01:02.470 --> 04:01:23.615 A method of doing reporting that will help you capture that and I think that we all agree that if a system fails that they'll need to be a remedy for it. And I think the better way to get at whether this is a greater risk is to analyze whether if it fails, or is actually a safety reliability risk, because I don't know that that's really what we're depending. 963 Sky Stanfield 04:01:23.644 --> 04:01:44.704 From the system, whether that's happening, but I do think we should all agree if the system does fail. The utilities have the ability already in row 21 to deal with that scenario. And I'm not sure that we're going going from 12 to 28 288 values actually increases that because it could fail at 12 values as well. 964 Yi Li SDG&E 04:01:46.473 --> 04:02:05.643 No, I just so, Scott, I don't disagree that we currently do have the ability to turn off the system. Right? We are describing that as 1 of the emergency measure we may implement. But what we're saying is that again, like, going from value. I think you mentioned that you don't believe that it's the same equipment. It's more it's more risk, but that's not true, right? Cause we, if. 965 Yi Li SDG&E 04:02:06.005 --> 04:02:27.035 If properly implementing, like, for example, multiple schedule versus, like, multiple value versus 1 value is the same function. We wouldn't even need to work on this, you know, certification right cause there's additional function involved in that scheduling to implement more values. And I'm not convinced that going to 280 value is essentially the same risk. And when it. 966 Yi Li SDG&E 04:02:27.068 --> 04:02:48.033 Comes to, like, the emergency shutdown. I would say that. You told me really from our perspective. We really want to avoid that. Right. That's why we're having this conversation. Right? If we have to shut down and you mentioned like reporting. Right? All. That is investigation afterwards. Right? If we have to go that route, you have to shut down everybody on the system, including. 967 Yi Li SDG&E 04:02:48.425 --> 04:03:09.035 All the other generating customer and we'll have to pull him. I meet her afterwards to do the investigation all that's going to take time and that's not the optimal outcome that we like to utilize. Right? We have the ability to do it in rule 21 tariff, but we don't like to do it often and we want to avoid it wherever possible. 968 Sky Stanfield 04:03:09.394 --> 04:03:30.424 I think there's yeah, I think there's space in between what both of us are saying. So, I'm not disagreeing with you that there's obviously a difference between 12 and 2288 values. I think the consequences that follow from, that could need to be thought through about what really we're saying is actually going to happen if that scenario comes to play and how you would approach the. 969 Sky Stanfield 04:03:30.603 --> 04:03:51.423 And if you're actually gonna have to shut the whole feeder down and so on, I'm not sure that that's the case either. But I think, like Justin was saying earlier, I think, like, let's not make huge leaps from a reasonable basic statement, which I think you guys have a basic statement. But we're making a lot of conclusions from there about what the safety reliability impacts could be. And in terms of optimal. 970 Sky Stanfield 04:03:51.965 --> 04:04:12.755 Wh, what you're saying is we want the optimal thing is to not allow us to capture all of that additional value. So, if there are trade offs, and we need to be super careful about the safety reliability tradeoffs, which is what you're most concerned about. And I appreciate that. But it's not like what you're saying is we're still going to allow people to capture that full value. So, what's. 971 Sky Stanfield 04:04:12.843 --> 04:04:15.483 Optimal is it depends on which side you're looking at it. 972 Yi Li SDG&E 04:04:16.413 --> 04:04:20.133 Yes, I think it would really be helpful for us to, like, move on to the next following slides. 973 Sky Stanfield 04:04:20.163 --> 04:04:20.733 Yeah, I agree. 974 Yi Li SDG&E 04:04:20.853 --> 04:04:33.963 Yeah, we're not I think Roger mentioned earlier, we're not trying to stop people from recapping that benefits. Right? We're actually mostly just we, we just want to start with tall. That's what we're saying. So, maybe let's let me just double check. 975 Yi Li SDG&E 04:04:33.995 --> 04:04:38.375 Are there any further question before we move on. 976 Yi Li SDG&E 04:04:40.534 --> 04:04:43.954 I don't think so. Um, can we move on to the next slide? 977 Yi Li SDG&E 04:04:50.974 --> 04:05:12.034 All right, so on, you know, I, I think we've been hearing on a lot of questions, starting with the, uh, workshops. Right? We, we understand that parties wants to know that. What are the elements necessary to allow more granularity? Cause we, we understand we want to support, you know, eventually to, to allow more granularity in the future. Once we have the technology and ability. 978 Yi Li SDG&E 04:05:12.064 --> 04:05:33.184 And experience to do that, so we put together among the with this kind of a plan that we want to kind of just talk through with you to see if that makes sense. And we can have a concrete conversation like we're having in today's workshop. So, what we're proposing here is that to start with the phase 1, which is sort of the initial implementation. 979 Yi Li SDG&E 04:05:33.784 --> 04:05:54.034 Uh, of what was initially approved in the decision right is to start with 1 unique value per month but using a 208 profile format, which means that 24 Valley essentially the same for each month and as we kind of kick off. And I think it's certainly our big best interest to kind of implement. 980 Yi Li SDG&E 04:05:54.340 --> 04:06:15.455 Again, 3, years of operating experience with which allows, you know, collectively, utilities to, uh, document any operational challenges, we may have any States, your ability challenges due to the highly flexible and changing distribution grid. It also allows us to get more experience through the interconnection process. And I expect that to be. 981 Yi Li SDG&E 04:06:15.514 --> 04:06:36.634 Kind of like, both ways. Right? It also helps the developers to get familiarity with the discussion process and also kind of capture utilization net levels of the implementation of GP. And after that, we fully expect we'll have a phase 2 where we will evaluate all the learnings from the phase 1 and determine what the. 982 Yi Li SDG&E 04:06:36.664 --> 04:06:57.784 Training and best practice and based on the safety vulnerability challenges we capture and what actually occurred we can kind of evaluate and determine if mitigation can be implemented. And at the same time, you know, customer technology is also 1 consideration. Like, I was just presenting, we want to kind of kick that into consideration something. We can get get additional data. 983 Yi Li SDG&E 04:06:57.814 --> 04:07:18.904 Point on is on how customer technology adherence to the performance requirements and, you know, it's also going to be a learning experience for all of us to decide if any changes are enhancement to the standards are required. How can we make it better? And, you know, support the grand goal that we're all going after here. And that will practically let us determine if we can. 984 Yi Li SDG&E 04:07:18.964 --> 04:07:40.084 Increase the frequency based on the learning and get you a more granularity based on the learning. We're gathering from phase 1 and after that. Uh, it's going to be the final phase. Um, if we're limited by phase 2 to go straight to the 280 hours full limitation, which again, we really have to. 985 Yi Li SDG&E 04:07:40.385 --> 04:08:01.235 The learning from phase 1 to make that determination and phase 2. we may decide that we need our technology should be operational, which could be germs and other operational system and needs communication issues, addressed, including cyber security considerations. I think there's a lot of efforts undergoing on that, and also need customer equipment to. 986 Yi Li SDG&E 04:08:01.264 --> 04:08:22.384 Human terms operational commands this is another area that we understand the technology is evolving, but for the testing may be required. Uh, I think Alex and, you know, PG E, has to hear some experience on that even earlier slide they last, but not least there may be regulatory rules and chairs to be updated to require us to respond in the quarter. 987 Yi Li SDG&E 04:08:22.504 --> 04:08:43.534 Terms commands in order for to go to a fully 208 hour limit invitation again, all these when it comes to the final phase, right a lot of that, we kind of hope for us to work together to determine that in phase 2, based on the learning phase 1, so not, you know, this is not set in stone and what may be absolutely. 988 Yi Li SDG&E 04:08:43.564 --> 04:08:52.804 Sorry for this to be implemented. So I imagine there'd be a lot of questions. I'll pause right there to see if you have any question, we can help address. 989 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:08:53.554 --> 04:08:59.344 There was a question in chat from sky. Uh, we'll dermis be in place. 990 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:09:00.605 --> 04:09:02.255 In alignment with the schedule. 991 Yi Li SDG&E 04:09:04.714 --> 04:09:25.744 That's our, that's our hope, right for speaking for here, we are waiting for approval uh, you know, so it really depends on if we get approval on during our 2024 on our driven activities. But if we do get alignment on this type of schedule, you know, for our internal perspective, will work. 992 Yi Li SDG&E 04:09:25.865 --> 04:09:46.985 Collect weight, she tried to stick to the schedule, um, but again, if there will be necessary to implement 280 schedule, that's something that we still need to evaluate and determine based on the learning in phase 1 in phase 2 right? So, we don't want to just flat out and say that all we have to have a term. We don't want to pass everything to the operational system. 993 Yi Li SDG&E 04:09:46.989 --> 04:09:55.924 You say that we definitely need that right? We need, you know, data and experience to prove that's actually necessary. Does I answer your question? 994 Sky Stanfield 04:09:56.704 --> 04:10:07.894 Um, let me just add 2 things. So so what I heard you say is that you guys are seeking approval for terms, but you haven't yet. I haven't yet gotten that approval so it'd be contingent upon whether the commission approves it. 995 Sky Stanfield 04:10:08.284 --> 04:10:22.774 And then just give me a sense, like, if the commission does approve it, you know, when that would happen. And then how long would it actually take to roll out germs across your system? I, I, I don't know enough about what the technology deployment actually. 996 Yi Li SDG&E 04:10:22.954 --> 04:10:29.224 That I have to take it back to my dirhams team right? Cause it's going to depend on what use case. We end up developing. 997 Yi Li SDG&E 04:10:29.289 --> 04:10:39.514 ltp right, because that may impact what they're having plan. Yeah, I don't want to speak for my colleagues for. They may have a different kind of timeline on this 1. 998 Sky Stanfield 04:10:40.204 --> 04:10:45.064 Okay, I don't think it's important exactly to respond to that. Now. I just think that that. 999 Sky Stanfield 04:10:46.655 --> 04:11:07.355 It's it's not guarantee that that will happen. This is the problem or that it will be in place. And that doesn't mean that we, you know, with the standards more aspects to this. But, and then just the 2nd, thing to clarify. Is that what I just heard you say is the way this slide shows up is that to do the 288, you need all the, you need the terms, and you need all. 1000 Sky Stanfield 04:11:07.359 --> 04:11:20.914 Indication address and what it sounded to me, like, what you were clarifying is, is that you're saying, you don't know whether that will be necessary and you'd want to learn from phase 2 and not that you're saying that that's your bottom line. 1001 Yi Li SDG&E 04:11:22.414 --> 04:11:28.474 Yeah, W, we're trying to be fair here. Right? W W. Yeah we don't want to say that we absolutely need a sort of. 1002 Yi Li SDG&E 04:11:28.534 --> 04:11:49.654 To be available insurance. Definitely. We think, is going to give us more visibility onto the system. It allows our operators to operate the system and more granular level. But we may decide based our learning from phase 1 phase 2 and to say that, you know, maybe there's already features that can be achieved. Right? 1003 Yi Li SDG&E 04:11:49.685 --> 04:12:10.805 We are comfortable it's it's more it's the challenge that we have so far, you know, find utility perspective on implementing, go straight to a 280 distinct values. Just we just don't know what are the risks associated with that. And we're nervous that the unknown is going to be, you know, causing a lot of outpatient issue that we know we did not have the tools necessary. 1004 Yi Li SDG&E 04:12:10.863 --> 04:12:21.423 To address it, but we're not saying that we absolutely have to have, you know, all the tools and what exactly the tools need to look like in order to address that. 1005 Sky Stanfield 04:12:22.113 --> 04:12:31.863 Okay, um, John burden put some helpful comments in the, um, chat and it would be great. John if you could, um, for the. 1006 Sky Stanfield 04:12:31.985 --> 04:12:49.745 Purposes of the record, and maybe he's able to just read them out again. But, um, address why the, the concern about the PCs failing, um, may not be or add the context on what what is actually being verified in the for to prevent that scenario. 1007 John Berdner Enphase 04:12:51.699 --> 04:13:10.534 Yeah, so, um, I think the concern is, um, you know, unforeseeable interactions on a given between a given piece of equipment and a given load at a specific site, which could cause. 1008 John Berdner Enphase 04:13:11.464 --> 04:13:32.494 The control system to not respond as expected, and no matter what you test in the lab. There may be weird corner cases that, uh, can occur. So, um, in in the PCs standard, there are numerous abnormal tests. What happens if. 1009 John Berdner Enphase 04:13:32.675 --> 04:13:53.255 C. T, gets disconnected what happens if the system controllers disconnected what happens if the installed and properly and someone and so on there's a bunch of tests that check. I, I would call, you know, dumb errors, but this interaction issue is not testable in the lab because. 1010 John Berdner Enphase 04:13:53.764 --> 04:14:14.884 It is very site specific, um, in the 2023 edition of the National electrical code. Um, there is a new requirement that says if and our paraphrases, the PCs malfunctions, then the system is required to shut down. We did discuss this at. 1011 John Berdner Enphase 04:14:14.914 --> 04:14:36.034 Then the task group, and we reached consensus position, including with, uh, input from the that shut down was an option. Another option would be to move the, the export limit to a generation limit with the. 1012 John Berdner Enphase 04:14:36.064 --> 04:14:57.124 Being you could never an export can never exceed the generation because if there's any load at all, then the export would be lower than generation. So, um, we are going to add a watchdog type function, uh, a new test that would basically. 1013 John Berdner Enphase 04:14:57.214 --> 04:15:17.434 Force a failure, you know, you could induce it by injecting a signal that pools a PCs into thinking the power, uh, export is still going on even though it's curtailed all the generation and then it would be required after some longer period of time seconds or. 1014 John Berdner Enphase 04:15:18.755 --> 04:15:38.285 Probably 10 seconds, or maybe a couple of minutes, then there would be a watchdog function that would kick in and either shut system down or, um, switch the generation, uh, the export limit to a generation limit, which should guarantee below the, the agreed. 1015 John Berdner Enphase 04:15:39.664 --> 04:15:56.584 So, um, that that issue is out there. Um, it has occurred at least once that I'm aware of. So, codes and standards are, you know, adjusting to real world experience and we will add that as a requirement. 1016 Yi Li SDG&E 04:15:58.323 --> 04:15:59.433 Thanks for sharing John. 1017 John Berdner Enphase 04:16:02.584 --> 04:16:05.884 And then my other comment was within 147. 1018 John Berdner Enphase 04:16:08.074 --> 04:16:28.714 A couple of functions that can be used to quote, override a PCs and the PCs, um, priority of responses within 547 is lower than the commanded response. So it's the lowest priority any command sent by the utility to the D. 1019 John Berdner Enphase 04:16:28.985 --> 04:16:49.985 147 2018 compliance system, it would have to obey the commanded limit. So we had a PCs that said limited to 2 megawatts and you sent a commanded limit to limit it to 1 megawatt. The would essentially have to. 1020 John Berdner Enphase 04:16:50.014 --> 04:16:57.244 The 1 megawatt limit, and it's even if the system didn't have PCs, that command still works. 1021 John Berdner Enphase 04:17:00.574 --> 04:17:03.484 So, that that exists within 147 already. 1022 Yi Li SDG&E 04:17:04.024 --> 04:17:18.514 Yeah, it's helpful, John I will see that from a lot of the, you know, we're talking about here the envision is that implementation is not gonna require a direct control to the, to the, to the smart inverters. Right? 1023 John Berdner Enphase 04:17:21.515 --> 04:17:32.555 Right. So that's where the new quote, unquote watchdog function that resides within the PCs that's part of its certification would come in. 1024 Yi Li SDG&E 04:17:32.555 --> 04:17:33.035 Huh. 1025 John Berdner Enphase 04:17:33.275 --> 04:17:39.875 But even if, for some reason, you know, that we're still exporting more than it should. 1026 John Berdner Enphase 04:17:41.104 --> 04:17:55.954 Would have to fall back within interoperability of 547 2018 to send a command to that site to tell it to reduce its output, or even turn it off. You can turn it off remotely as well. 1027 Yi Li SDG&E 04:18:01.145 --> 04:18:08.495 Okay, um, I I see quite a few hands up so just to do you want to go 1st? 1028 Regnier, Justin 04:18:10.924 --> 04:18:15.094 Yeah, that'd be brief. I know we're likely to try it on our. 1029 Regnier, Justin 04:18:16.714 --> 04:18:17.734 Looking at the slide. 1030 Yi Li SDG&E 04:18:20.764 --> 04:18:23.524 I can't hear you Justin. I don't know if it's my issue. 1031 McElvain, Frank 04:18:25.384 --> 04:18:27.364 Justin, you went, you went silent. 1032 Regnier, Justin 04:18:32.645 --> 04:18:34.115 Um, can you hear me now. 1033 Yi Li SDG&E 04:18:34.865 --> 04:18:35.165 Yep. 1034 McElvain, Frank 04:18:35.195 --> 04:18:35.675 Yes. 1035 Regnier, Justin 04:18:35.705 --> 04:18:50.975 Yes, okay. So looking at this, it seems there is a proposal on the table from the I used to go phase 1 now, which is, uh, uh, the 12 values phase 22026toevaluatelearnings from phase 1. 1036 Regnier, Justin 04:18:51.394 --> 04:18:56.254 In final phase germs, whenever that should come through my understanding that properly. 1037 Yi Li SDG&E 04:18:58.714 --> 04:19:00.724 Yeah, this is our proposal on the table. 1038 Regnier, Justin 04:19:02.584 --> 04:19:23.644 So, I would note that phase 3 is, there's a lot of it's shaky as sky's noted. There's the authorization for germs in itself. And I would note that just the architecture of having all of these systems tied into a single point of compromise. 1039 Regnier, Justin 04:19:23.680 --> 04:19:44.825 Single point of failure on the terms, and the command and control environment is inherently to my understanding of cybersecurity and that's not what my license is in. But my understanding of it, it's inherently more risky to have all of those messages go through 1 clearing house than it is just to tell the customers that this is the profile you have to meet and then. 1040 Regnier, Justin 04:19:44.853 --> 04:19:58.713 They can set it up for them their own systems. So just bring that up as something for further consideration. Maybe in parentheses group that wanted to confirm that this was a proposal on the table. And thank you for the clarification. 1041 Yi Li SDG&E 04:20:02.434 --> 04:20:05.374 No, uh, I think next 1 is a Ming. 1042 Younes, Amin 04:20:06.364 --> 04:20:22.864 Yeah, um, I'm just a little bit skeptical of of phase 2, frankly, of what information the utilities would gather that would make them comfortable going from 12 to 288 because we've been hearing for for for months. Now, the utilities are not comfortable going from 1 value to 12. 1043 Younes, Amin 04:20:22.925 --> 04:20:34.325 You they see increased risk and can't quantify it. So, what are you going to specifically be doing in phase 2? It allows you to evaluate whether 288 values is safe simply by looking at 12. 1044 Yi Li SDG&E 04:20:37.834 --> 04:20:58.024 So the phase 2 is built on on phase 1, right? So the phase 1 is where this is, where it's kind of it's, it's a bit tricky for us to, like, lay it out perfectly. So, phase 1 is more like now and phase 2 is like, after 3 years of experience, right? It's it's almost like a time check. Right now. We have 3. we have. 1045 Yi Li SDG&E 04:20:58.235 --> 04:21:19.295 Experience, if you look at the bullet points, the bullet points, under the 3 of experience, we are operating with the 288 profile, but with total distinct value throughout the throughout the schedule. Uh, it allows us to collect more operational data. Understand more about what kind of operational challenge we're dealing. 1046 Yi Li SDG&E 04:21:20.194 --> 04:21:40.354 And, uh, also, you know, gather the safety vulnerability challenges that I think, throughout the discussion parties have been asking us to to share, which we couldn't because we have never implemented yet. Uh, and also any experience we have throughout the interconnection processing for right? And how many people actually, you. 1047 Yi Li SDG&E 04:21:40.654 --> 04:22:01.594 ltp right, let's say that we decided that there's a lot of people, there's a lot of value, right? Because there's the implementing, and there's a cost associated if we wanted to implement additional technology and additional tools to go for more granularity there's also going to be that consideration of how many people actually. 1048 Yi Li SDG&E 04:22:01.625 --> 04:22:11.315 Want to utilize, and if it makes sense to request that investment in order to develop those technology and tools. 1049 Yi Li SDG&E 04:22:11.585 --> 04:22:12.245 Quick question. 1050 Younes, Amin 04:22:12.425 --> 04:22:31.655 No, not really because what I'm hearing is that you're looking for issues with the 12 values. What does that mean? If you don't see any issues, you're going to be comfortable going to 288 values or are we going to spend 3 years at 12 values? And at the end of that here that you're still not comfortable with 288? I'm just I'm not really seeing anything that would make. 1051 Younes, Amin 04:22:32.644 --> 04:22:37.774 Make it seem like you would be more comfortable with 288, distinct values at the end of that 3 year process. 1052 Yi Li SDG&E 04:22:38.854 --> 04:22:53.764 I'm not sure it's, it's it's it's right to a particularly saying that we are trying to look for issues right for now, utilities perspective, we're hoping for no issue occurring during that 3 year, period, but as long as we're operating with in the field. 1053 Yi Li SDG&E 04:22:53.883 --> 04:23:14.763 We get more experience on how to model that, and how our systems function with that gives us more visibility on how the system be behave. Right? We have more data. It's a learning experience as well. We're not really kind of using the 3 year to see. We can't poke holes into the tool Valley. Right? That's not what we're doing. It's. 1054 Yi Li SDG&E 04:23:14.975 --> 04:23:36.005 Practically allow us to collect more information on the applications. How many we get how these applications, you know, what? How does it change the circuit behavior wise they'll just be customer interconnected. How do how does that function during a transfer? Right? Because that's another issue that we were talking a lot. In fact, we love it when we reconfigure our lines. 1055 Yi Li SDG&E 04:23:36.393 --> 04:23:48.723 Do we need to take more consideration of the system? Those are all experience we're hoping to again besides we're hoping for there's no issue occurring. So I do think that the 3 year is gonna make us more comfortable. 1056 Younes, Amin 04:23:49.503 --> 04:23:57.213 Yeah, so then I guess I understand that I understand the value of what you're going to learn in the 3 years. Just the question is then ultimately, how are you going to decide. 1057 Younes, Amin 04:23:57.245 --> 04:24:02.075 Whether or not, you're comfortable implementing 288 values without terms at that point. 1058 Yi Li SDG&E 04:24:07.053 --> 04:24:09.903 What I, I don't understand what do you mean by that? You mean like. 1059 Younes, Amin 04:24:10.593 --> 04:24:24.003 Your final steps says if limited by phase 2 so isn't the implication there that either at the end of phase 2, you decide we can do 288 values without terms, or we need to wait for terms or am I misunderstanding? 1060 Roger Salas SCE 04:24:25.985 --> 04:24:46.505 This is Roger, let me make sure we can. I think again, this is the proposal that we have here, but essentially is to your point, I mean, is if, you know, if we implement the core values since, we don't see, for instance, say, we're not seeing any operational challenges, even though there's, we know that the the, the. 1061 Roger Salas SCE 04:24:46.683 --> 04:25:07.653 Is fluctuating. We know that will demonstrate that, but if we're not seeing any issues, operational safety or other issues with our values, and we have done that for 3 years. And then that would mix out a lot more comfortable, going to a more granular level, as opposed to going from. 1062 Roger Salas SCE 04:25:07.745 --> 04:25:27.575 1 value to choose the values were nothing in between. So, this is almost like a like a step function where okay well, no, we want to take a step 4. we want to see what we learn. See, what operational challenges if anyway, and hopefully we don't have any right? But if we were to have some, it would be a lot easier to catch up with 12 values. And 2 of the values. 1063 Younes, Amin 04:25:29.254 --> 04:25:49.984 So, I think that's what I wanted to hear, is that at the end of that, period, if you're not seeing big ShowStoppers, then you would be much more comfortable with 288 values in that. 3 year period is to is to find that out. And if you see a lot of issues, then you'll aim to adjust some of the terms. If you don't see a lot of issues, your proposal would then be to go forward with 288 values at the end of 2026, or in 2026. 1064 Younes, Amin 04:25:50.018 --> 04:25:50.523 Is that right? 1065 Roger Salas SCE 04:25:51.933 --> 04:26:11.133 That's right in fact, you know, if you look at the, the bullet number 1 of the final phase, which says if limited by phase 2, right? So, if I'm if I'm phase 2, we are limited by 288 to limit it from doing then. Then, at that point, we may have to wait until the room system, but it could be that our. 1066 Roger Salas SCE 04:26:11.945 --> 04:26:27.845 During that phase 1 after the 3 years over, and we spend some time looking at the data and see what what our learnings are it may be that we feel comfortable willing to to 88 without terms. But we don't know that, because we don't have any operational experience to see whether or not there's any problems or not. 1067 Younes, Amin 04:26:29.854 --> 04:26:30.784 Okay, that makes. 1068 McElvain, Frank 04:26:30.784 --> 04:26:30.994 And. 1069 Younes, Amin 04:26:31.024 --> 04:26:31.534 Thank you for. 1070 McElvain, Frank 04:26:31.534 --> 04:26:40.684 Let me jump in here. What W, W, why why do you need 3 years to get that comfort? I mean, you're going to know after 3 months. 1071 Roger Salas SCE 04:26:42.814 --> 04:26:50.164 I would say not that, because many circuits our circuits don't have a problem every day. 1072 Roger Salas SCE 04:26:50.825 --> 04:27:11.225 Right, I mean, many of our circuits may have 12 issues, uh, a year, and it takes time to gain operational experience. Uh, so, no, I think we do need the time, not only from the engineering side, or on the operation side, uh, sites we can all learn. Uh, how this technology operates. 1073 McElvain, Frank 04:27:14.554 --> 04:27:19.444 It it seems to me, like, you're kicking the can down the road, but, uh, um. 1074 Roger Salas SCE 04:27:19.984 --> 04:27:20.374 Well. 1075 Roger Salas SCE 04:27:21.695 --> 04:27:27.815 As a reference, I mean, we, we started this work back in 2017 so, I mean, I think it's 3 years appropriate. 1076 Sky Stanfield 04:27:30.129 --> 04:27:47.434 So, I don't know if that follows route we've been working on this, then started 17 so we should wait until almost 10 years later before we achieve the benefits of it. I don't know if that that is exactly the case. It's taking a long time to get us here. And what you're proposing is that it takes us a lot of time a lot longer to get us from there. 1077 Roger Salas SCE 04:27:48.874 --> 04:27:51.274 No, what I'm proposing is that we receive. 1078 Roger Salas SCE 04:27:51.279 --> 04:27:57.214 Get the right level of timing for the utilities to gain experience so that we don't end up having a problem in the field. 1079 Tam Hunt GPI 04:28:01.473 --> 04:28:01.953 To clarify. 1080 Sky Stanfield 04:28:02.343 --> 04:28:07.623 Oh, go ahead. Sorry, Tim. I'm just going to say I would love to see the rest of the slides, because I think they do raise some good points that we need to work on. 1081 Tam Hunt GPI 04:28:08.103 --> 04:28:14.403 Yeah, did I guess the real quick clarifying question just to be clear here? Um, this proposal is from all the values jointly, right? 1082 Yi Li SDG&E 04:28:16.173 --> 04:28:16.533 Yeah. 1083 Tam Hunt GPI 04:28:17.073 --> 04:28:17.523 Thank you. 1084 Alex Mwaura 04:28:25.894 --> 04:28:27.634 Yeah, this is a joint proposal. Yes. 1085 Tam Hunt GPI 04:28:31.835 --> 04:28:44.165 And I guess I'll just share my, my sentiment is matching what we just heard from other stakeholders here. This seems like a pretty protracted schedule, particularly given advanced modeling. Um, seems like it could be definitely shorten it quite a bit. 1086 Frances Cleveland 04:28:48.273 --> 04:29:07.203 So, can I also ask a question or make a comment? Really? It seems to me that 1 of the key requirements is getting data from these sites um, in. 1087 Frances Cleveland 04:29:07.595 --> 04:29:28.325 Essentially real time, I'll say near real time, but also, if you have the communication capability, then you should also be able to issue commands such as stop, uh, you know, or, you know, change your settings. 1088 Frances Cleveland 04:29:28.683 --> 04:29:49.713 Right away or again in near real time. So I guess what I'm saying is that if you include as part of a an experimental time, whether it's 12. 1089 Frances Cleveland 04:29:49.745 --> 04:30:10.715 For 288 values, if you add the communications capability, and not just for monitoring, but for actually being able to change it. And this may be something where you require it for these demo or these initial systems, then it would make less. 1090 Frances Cleveland 04:30:10.894 --> 04:30:21.754 Whether you had 12 or 288, because you have the real time, uh, ability to change things. 1091 Yi Li SDG&E 04:30:25.143 --> 04:30:35.493 I think what you're describing is what we're proposing here in phase 3 in final phase, right? Possibility that may be needed. It's it's really. 1092 Frances Cleveland 04:30:37.353 --> 04:30:44.673 What I'm really saying is that you could have that right from the beginning why wait until the final phase you could have. 1093 Frances Cleveland 04:30:44.735 --> 04:31:05.225 Communication capability for these experimental or, you know, systems not for every single 1 of them, but for experimental systems right away. You don't need to wait until the final phase in order to have communications. 1094 gary holdsworth sdg&e 04:31:05.859 --> 04:31:16.264 No, and I think what you're talking about when we have telemetry, that's a 1 way communication. We don't have, um, return control that comes with terms. That is that only comes with terms as far as I know. 1095 Frances Cleveland 04:31:18.574 --> 04:31:39.664 What I'm asking, it's, it's not like it's, it's really a capability. You could have 2 way communications for experimental or, you know, looking at demos. And I think this is the key. Are you willing to put in 2 way communications? 1096 Frances Cleveland 04:31:40.294 --> 04:31:45.424 Um, in order to gain the experience that you really need. 1097 Yi Li SDG&E 04:31:48.904 --> 04:31:57.634 I, I'm not sure what that question is directed to. For instance, are you asking are the developer willing to give the data. 1098 Frances Cleveland 04:31:58.354 --> 04:32:07.894 If you are going to have projects, okay, you can say that, at least for the 1st, um. 1099 Frances Cleveland 04:32:07.985 --> 04:32:28.955 1 project, you would include communication capabilities, a 2 way communication capabilities that would allow you to do not just sort of monitoring, but to be able to react to situations and to my mind. 1100 Frances Cleveland 04:32:29.074 --> 04:32:50.194 That is by far the more important aspect, if you can react to situations, then you can mitigate the security or safety and reliability issues. And I think that's what I'm. 1101 Frances Cleveland 04:32:50.224 --> 04:33:11.344 Talking about and the communications may also be protective relaying. Not saying it's just communications directly to the utility, but I think it's, it's looking at communication capabilities, protective, relaying substation monitoring so that. 1102 Frances Cleveland 04:33:11.373 --> 04:33:22.475 You know, what's going on and that you can react to it that would close the time needed to really determine what you need to do. 1103 Brian Lydic - IREC 04:33:25.145 --> 04:33:45.064 This is Brian with Eric I'm gonna have to run here, but just wanted to support that. That's definitely something. That could be done on a pilot basis. But also not sure that the extent of that is even necessary, was mentioned before for its monitoring capabilities of voltage and whatnot, and maybe we can learn to leverage. 1104 Brian Lydic - IREC 04:33:46.715 --> 04:33:58.443 Somewhat new way to monitor the distribution system for these types of potential issues. If there actually are issues that arise from these things. 1105 Brian Lydic - IREC 04:34:01.684 --> 04:34:21.725 Not a pilot basis, but potentially, you know, thinking of how how you leverage those systems for managing the distribution system into the future and trying to get the full benefits of the 288 profile sooner rather than waiting until 2027 or. 1106 Brian Lydic - IREC 04:34:22.623 --> 04:34:26.885 But putting in other aspects in place to gain more confidence. 1107 Sky Stanfield 04:34:31.506 --> 04:34:50.045 I have a separate point that I think would be helpful if you, if you could address just for my less technical knowledge. Um, I guess what, I'm not sure I understand is why we need to deploy systems to get this understanding versus being able to model. 1108 Sky Stanfield 04:34:50.613 --> 04:35:11.193 There seem like there are 2 parts here 1, is whether you trust the PCs, um, control scheduling capabilities to perform accordingly and that might lean towards needing to deploy. Although I think John gave a good explanation. And and the commission will have to decide if that the systems are reliable enough to require that. 1109 Sky Stanfield 04:35:11.225 --> 04:35:32.344 But I'm not clear that, like, if there are a fixed set of schedules, we have utilities are both saying we don't have data, but then you did provide data and you did look at some specific theater. So, I'm not sure exactly why we actually need to deploy the systems to get that learning versus being able to do modeling. There may be I think. 1110 Sky Stanfield 04:35:32.494 --> 04:35:53.494 The the samples that you guys have done, which, I don't know if we're going to end up getting to today now raise some questions we need to work through and potentially design mitigations around. But it's not clear to me what, what actual deployment that we can't model it instead of waiting this long time again. Because what I think you're getting at is a very. 1111 Sky Stanfield 04:35:53.523 --> 04:36:14.523 The timeline, and there may be ways to do it either the be the pilot approach that Brian and others just discussed, or just doing better modeling with the data. You guys should have already, um, to understand what your underlying concerns are. Because every feeder is going to be different indefinitely as you always remind us. So why can't we use. 1112 Roger Salas SCE 04:36:18.936 --> 04:36:35.074 How come in is that modeling is just as good as how the system perform in the past. I mean, that's, you know, modeling, you know, it's it's great just to know. Hey, this is this, this is based on the systems. 1113 Roger Salas SCE 04:36:35.799 --> 04:36:40.354 The way this has performed in the past this is the way from in the future. 1114 Sky Stanfield 04:36:41.555 --> 04:36:46.324 But it's not always going to be true. Even if you do this for 3 years, then you're not going to know how it's going to perform into the. 1115 Roger Salas SCE 04:36:46.324 --> 04:36:46.744 Future. 1116 Sky Stanfield 04:36:46.744 --> 04:36:49.504 Further help me understand that. 1117 Roger Salas SCE 04:36:49.533 --> 04:37:02.434 Well, give me up for a 2nd, again I'm going to address the comment of modeling. Marina doesn't guarantee anything in the future. So, you know, we can matter all we want, but it's not a predictable predictor of what. 1118 Roger Salas SCE 04:37:03.096 --> 04:37:23.734 This is how the system's gonna react for real time, operational conditions, you know, target polls, you know, you know, failures, or, uh, on subject line, or customer changing, you know, something that their facility, all that kind of stuff. You know, Alex talked about earlier. Um, so, so, so, Marlene, you know, you know, I know folks. 1119 Roger Salas SCE 04:37:23.740 --> 04:37:39.936 He's talking about, which is model it, you know, that is not sufficient in my opinion, to, to ensure in the future, um, in terms of our, in terms of unless unless we, uh, you know, I'm gonna say, have the thoroughly brand new way. 1120 Sky Stanfield 04:37:39.936 --> 04:37:40.506 Please. 1121 Roger Salas SCE 04:37:41.164 --> 04:37:44.885 Which I think we are working on, that would have real time communication. 1122 Roger Salas SCE 04:37:44.914 --> 04:38:05.584 Since, at this time, all the data is connected connected nicely for, and it's really nice it's only used for billing use for some other information, but not for real time operations. And so, because I think what the problem that we're dealing with here is is the real time operations now that we can model or that we cannot get information later. 1123 Roger Salas SCE 04:38:06.484 --> 04:38:27.154 So so, I think what we're seeing here is that this phase 2 experience will give us a little bit more experience to determine whether whether 12 months is creating a problem or not problem. And that will give us more. Um, I'm going to say more confidence that we're. 1124 Roger Salas SCE 04:38:27.635 --> 04:38:40.744 With all those fluctuations in the system it is still now, it's still not gonna create a safety problem but but we need that experience, you know, and and I don't know that, that we can get it from from just the 1 year now that we have. 1125 Sky Stanfield 04:38:41.045 --> 04:38:48.334 Okay, so I think that, um, what I heard did not explain why you're going to be ready in phase 2. you're going to say. 1126 Sky Stanfield 04:38:48.365 --> 04:39:09.484 The same thing you're going to say, we don't know what the conditions will be in the future and you have data and you keep saying you don't what you do, you have data that could go back a year or 2 and see what this is going to behave like, and later on what a 24 hour profile would look like. It's you're never going to know what tomorrow holds that's going to be an infinite way to hold this. I. 1127 Sky Stanfield 04:39:09.516 --> 04:39:21.904 Realize they're playing it out in the field might give you a little bit more data but again we're making trade offs here. And I don't think up until this presentation on the utilities have taken a look at any data to see if that was really going to hold. True. 1128 Roger Salas SCE 04:39:26.133 --> 04:39:41.704 I mean, I think again what we're at least at least for for me, what I'm, what I would gain out of this period is learning whether now we actually experienced any problems. And and it would be a step towards getting more granular instead of going from 1 to 208. 1129 Alex Mwaura 04:39:43.712 --> 04:40:04.472 Yeah, this is Alex from so, everything you and Roger said, but the 1 thing that I'd like to add is that the hosting capacity, the profile is based on history, historical loading information. Right? So, what we're saying is that if we follow that profile really, really closely on our, by our basis. 1130 Alex Mwaura 04:40:04.478 --> 04:40:25.624 There's an opportunity that the profile, the customer profile may actually go above the hosting capacity profile, because we don't know what's going to happen in the future. Like, you point out sky we've been able to implement or pass screen, em, in the past, because the values are very conservative using 15% and now using 1, single 1, single or f value but. 1131 Alex Mwaura 04:40:25.654 --> 04:40:46.564 You have these profiles, you know, 1 profile with the 10% buffer following the profile in an hour by hour basis, moving on, in the future. We don't know that they're not going to cross and what's gonna happen in this? If we have this project's connect with 1 year, 2 years, 3 years what the learnings we're going to find out if this is. 1132 Alex Mwaura 04:40:46.894 --> 04:40:48.214 Be an issue or. 1133 Sky Stanfield 04:40:50.374 --> 04:41:10.744 And by issue, you mean, if there's actually a transformer that burns up or something like that or you mean, a hypothetical that I see it didn't line up with the what what was modeled for it too, cause that's what you just said is the same thing. I understand which is that? Yes, I agree. You guys have some good. 1134 Sky Stanfield 04:41:10.774 --> 04:41:31.832 We still haven't gotten to that shows that below the modeled off last year's load and the next year's load is going to be different ad infinitum. That is something we could model. We could look at multiple years of data to figure out and see how a profile would perform. What I guess what I want to understand is what more what ish, quote issues will. 1135 Sky Stanfield 04:41:32.106 --> 04:41:52.836 Will be seen as we deploy. It's not I don't I actually think that you're you have really good points that we need to work on on load is different every year. That is something we can work on. That's something we can agree on Eva profitably, but I don't see how deployment we know that. Why does the, why do we have to deploy it for 3 years to know. 1136 Roger Salas SCE 04:41:56.194 --> 04:42:14.104 I think my response to that would be, uh, sky is that. I'm hoping that even with that low fluctuation data that you'll see in the next slides that even in that case, we don't have a problem with 12 months. And if that's the case, then then I would feel a lot more comfortable. 1137 Roger Salas SCE 04:42:14.224 --> 04:42:34.954 Even with that fluctuation, a load profiles, we wouldn't have a problem with 288. so that's that's that's that's that's the test criteria there right? Like, okay, now we're doing the, the current proceed that the current, the way that we, the way you currently do in operations today. We can look at the worst case condition as we know folks over on Thursday right? 1138 Roger Salas SCE 04:42:35.374 --> 04:42:56.494 Well, now we're going to another level where now you're looking at 12 values and we know that these these low fluctuation is happening as we'll show, in our hopes is that we don't have any of these issues. And then at that point, we can say Yep. You know, even though this, this, there's this, uh, low fluctuation, we are still okay within the 12 months, and we will feel more comfortable. Now. 1139 Roger Salas SCE 04:42:56.498 --> 04:42:57.184 28. 1140 Sky Stanfield 04:42:59.434 --> 04:43:01.052 I think we've, we beat this 1. 1141 Regnier, Justin 04:43:08.854 --> 04:43:28.114 Alright, well, now that we beat that 1 what I think I heard Roger say, is that 12 months of operational information would help him feel better about the lack of likelihood that they'd run into project problems in the future. 1142 Regnier, Justin 04:43:30.484 --> 04:43:50.074 So, I wanted to check that, but I also wanted to raise the point to Francis francis's point that we're not I don't think our scope here includes pilots and learning opportunities. I think we're, we're pretty pretty. 1143 Regnier, Justin 04:43:50.104 --> 04:44:11.222 Tightly prescribed by what the commission is authorized and the resolutions, and also raise the point that has also been raised by John that we will have a natural experiment for systems that are larger than a megawatt that they will have telemetry within them. And they will have data that is of sufficient quality that it could be. 1144 Regnier, Justin 04:44:11.254 --> 04:44:32.344 Rationalized I would also throw out that I don't think we've established any linkage between having or any need to have operational level data to understand the effects of this. What we've discussed all the way through here is just a level of. 1145 Regnier, Justin 04:44:32.378 --> 04:44:50.254 Data the sufficient to ensure compliance with limited generation profile, established an interconnection agreement. The I use of confirmed that data would be sufficient for that. So all the disparate points now on the record and I'm happy to move on to Alex. 1146 Yi Li SDG&E 04:44:57.334 --> 04:45:05.404 Else do you have a question, or? Oh, okay. I saw the hands disappearing. Can we go to the next slide? Please. 1147 Yi Li SDG&E 04:45:09.064 --> 04:45:11.464 I I think we already talked about this earlier about the. 1148 Roger Salas SCE 04:45:14.134 --> 04:45:25.954 Before we go, I guess I want to bring Justin back. I want to because I know that he put some stuff on the record. Can you repeat that Jessica? I want to make sure that that we're concurrent with what you stated. 1149 Regnier, Justin 04:45:31.504 --> 04:45:32.254 Um. 1150 Regnier, Justin 04:45:36.336 --> 04:45:38.314 I don't know that I can recall it all. 1151 Roger Salas SCE 04:45:39.036 --> 04:45:42.006 You you talked about, you talked about. 1152 Regnier, Justin 04:45:43.324 --> 04:45:52.294 Yeah, so so the, I is confirmed that is sufficient for verifying whether the site is complying with their interconnection agreement or not. 1153 Roger Salas SCE 04:45:52.564 --> 04:45:55.564 Okay, yeah, we, we agree with that. Yeah, that's right. So so the. 1154 Roger Salas SCE 04:45:55.624 --> 04:45:59.524 My data instead of telemetry for systems, less than 1 megawatt. 1155 Regnier, Justin 04:46:00.212 --> 04:46:16.322 It's all coming back to me now at 4 points. So, 1, am I to, uh, to Francis suggestions of a pilot? I don't believe that we've got the implementer from the commission to do that. We're, we're limited to what the resolution tells us to do. That's what we're ministerial so we take we carry out. 1156 Regnier, Justin 04:46:16.926 --> 04:46:37.806 The instructions of the 3rd thing was emphasizing and echoing John's comment in the chat that, uh, we'll have a natural experiment systems that are larger than a, a megawatt will provide telemetry data and we'll be able to take a look at that and see if it differs anything at all from, and if there's any useful information. 1157 Regnier, Justin 04:46:38.074 --> 04:46:55.714 And the difference, and the other thing, the last thing I'm going in reverse order here, was that what I thought I'd heard you say prior, was that getting 12 months of actual operational data, something that would provide you some degree of comfort. 1158 Roger Salas SCE 04:46:56.194 --> 04:46:56.764 No, I, I. 1159 Regnier, Justin 04:46:56.764 --> 04:46:57.364 I think. 1160 Roger Salas SCE 04:46:57.724 --> 04:47:11.494 I think we mentioned 3 years for the flow chart before. So not 12 months. I I don't know what the 12 year, 12 months come from, but yeah, we said that 3 months of operational data, um, conference will be 3 years not 12 months. 1161 Regnier, Justin 04:47:12.334 --> 04:47:18.754 And that's what I saw on the slide. So it was interesting. It was interesting. What I thought I heard was the 12 months, and it sounds. 1162 Regnier, Justin 04:47:18.786 --> 04:47:20.554 You're correcting that impression. 1163 Roger Salas SCE 04:47:20.676 --> 04:47:22.894 Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Jonathan. Appreciate it. 1164 Yi Li SDG&E 04:47:28.836 --> 04:47:44.766 Okay, uh, just wanted to kind of recap this point. Uh, if you've already talked about here, and we are in agreement, uh, with, uh, the utilizing a sort of a common file, such as a CSV that contains 280 data points. 1165 Yi Li SDG&E 04:47:45.784 --> 04:48:04.864 The format here, which we provided kind of example, is just to be illustrative. Specific terminology is subjective teams and maybe different across. Yeah, I think we're kind of short on time. So I'm not going to go into a lot of details unless there's question on this point. 1166 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:48:13.324 --> 04:48:25.356 Okay, uh, thank you. Uh, so, um, we're definitely not going to be able to go through the utilities last section. 1167 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:48:26.974 --> 04:48:47.464 And by 5 o'clock, the way, uh, the discussion is going, that's definitely we'd probably be here until 7. um, I do not want to do that cause that's that time. So I think we should, uh, pick up on the data analysis. 1168 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:48:47.914 --> 04:49:07.744 Which the utilities were going to present, we should pick that up at the next workshop. Uh, topics are definitely not resolved, which I had planned for. I knew this was not a 1 workshop. 1169 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:49:09.394 --> 04:49:29.856 Topic, you know, 1 workshop, everything is resolved, kind of deal for these 2 topics. So I think we should pick up with the data analysis, uh, at the next workshop on February 21st, along with any new presentations that. 1170 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:49:29.914 --> 04:49:51.034 Need to, uh, you know, any new information that needs to be added. 1 thing I wanted to do is quickly show the updated count advocate slides. So, uh, Francisco, I think I should be. 1171 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:49:51.064 --> 04:49:57.664 Able to share. Correct you don't have these slides so I'll share what I have. 1172 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:50:01.684 --> 04:50:20.642 And again, my apologies for these, um, we're not, uh, circulating, uh, this final slide but, uh, what I got them, it was under a different heading. So I didn't think they were. 1173 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:50:20.676 --> 04:50:25.446 It, but everybody can see my screen. Can I get an affirmative. 1174 Francisco Hernandez (ZF2) 04:50:28.024 --> 04:50:28.864 Yes, so forbid. 1175 Michael Barigian SCE 04:50:29.134 --> 04:50:29.344 Yeah. 1176 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:50:29.854 --> 04:50:48.814 Okay, thank you. So I'll just quickly share them just to get them on the record here. I'm not gonna discuss them. I mean, said only the last slide was, uh, different. So I just wanted to show them and I will be circulating this to the, uh, distribution. 1177 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:50:48.850 --> 04:50:56.644 Here everybody that participated today, so you guys have it and these slides will be posted. 1178 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:50:59.556 --> 04:51:12.546 And, uh, like I said, I mean, set, this was the only the last slide was the only difference. So I think it was at 288 value. 1179 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:51:17.014 --> 04:51:34.324 So all right, so I'm going to stop sharing, but, like I said, I just wanted to, uh, show everybody, uh, these updated slides. Like, how advocates uh, okay. So, um, having said that, um. 1180 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:51:36.034 --> 04:51:42.514 And given, uh, only 4 more minutes left here, um, I wanted to see if there are any, um. 1181 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:51:43.984 --> 04:52:04.956 Last minute questions or clarifications again, I wanted to point out that, uh, if you feel anything needs discussion, feel free to email me and I will put it on the agenda or solution e5230. That's allow energy to put topics in the agenda. 1182 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:52:07.144 --> 04:52:13.926 To be discussed, so having said that any last minute comments. 1183 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:52:24.516 --> 04:52:41.676 All right, uh, so hearing Don, uh, Roger, uh, 1 of the action items I noted is Roger will be taking lead on, uh, getting a group discussion going, uh, between John partner, and other parties and Brian. 1184 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:52:43.082 --> 04:53:04.024 And energy division to discuss topic E, Burger, um, and has been mentioned, uh, we will continue a topic in the 2nd workshop tomorrow. We will be holding the smarter we're working group meeting. The utilities will be kicking off discussion on topic. 1185 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:53:04.208 --> 04:53:25.024 1, which is just an affirmation that instead of quarterly reporting a, a M, I, data will be utilized and then topic B2 is the name played versus export rating that we're still a. 1186 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:53:25.360 --> 04:53:28.384 That were kind of in the gray area. 1187 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:53:29.824 --> 04:53:41.766 You know, whether what, uh, rating was, what rating was gonna be utilized during the study process. So that is tomorrow smarter virtual working group discussion. 1188 Roger Salas SCE 04:53:44.196 --> 04:53:50.734 It's just a quick plug in there. If anybody wants to be part of the technical discussion. Please send me the. 1189 Roger Salas SCE 04:53:50.766 --> 04:53:58.116 Email otherwise, at this point, I just have, uh, uh, Brian and John. So, thank you. And the emails that, and folks that you sent. 1190 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:53:58.984 --> 04:54:04.536 Yeah, and so that's, uh, Brian. Eric my Rick. Uh, uh, John. 1191 Roger Salas SCE 04:54:05.224 --> 04:54:05.464 Yeah. 1192 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:05.526 --> 04:54:06.936 And energy division. 1193 Roger Salas SCE 04:54:07.324 --> 04:54:07.686 That's right. 1194 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:07.686 --> 04:54:11.164 So, uh, everybody should have, uh, Roger email. 1195 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:11.974 --> 04:54:23.254 In the invite, uh, if not email me and I'll get you in touch with them and, uh, that's it. And Justin, I think, has some closing thoughts. 1196 Regnier, Justin 04:54:24.364 --> 04:54:30.094 Just very quickly did you want to note to folks about PDF in the chat and having that be a part of the record or. 1197 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:30.784 --> 04:54:32.854 Oh, yes, thank you. So. 1198 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:34.234 --> 04:54:52.864 I will be, uh, along with the presentation and the recordings, I will be posting a PDF file with everything that was setting the chat window. I think we captured most of it. 1199 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:54:56.014 --> 04:55:00.664 You know, reading out loud, but just in case, it'll be there. 1200 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:07.866 --> 04:55:19.266 So all right, that's about it. Uh, thank you. Everybody for joining us today. Another interesting discussion and we will, uh. 1201 Sky Stanfield 04:55:20.164 --> 04:55:20.404 Huh. 1202 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:20.404 --> 04:55:20.766 Soon. 1203 Sky Stanfield 04:55:21.456 --> 04:55:23.766 Thanks everyone thanks to everybody put presentation. 1204 Sky Stanfield 04:55:23.824 --> 04:55:24.844 Together especially. 1205 Roger Salas SCE 04:55:25.744 --> 04:55:26.314 Thanks everybody. 1206 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:26.794 --> 04:55:34.984 Yeah, thank you to everybody and the utilities for pulling that off even though we didn't get to that last section. Apologies for that. 1207 Michael Barigian SCE 04:55:36.606 --> 04:55:37.266 Thank you. 1208 Frances Cleveland 04:55:37.474 --> 04:55:38.164 Bye. 1209 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:39.304 --> 04:55:39.664 All right. 1210 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:41.766 --> 04:55:45.576 In Francisco, I think we can stop recording now. 1211 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:55:52.142 --> 04:55:54.692 Francisco, could you confirm recording has stopped? 1212 Aliaga-Caro, Jose 04:56:12.456 --> 04:56:13.564 It's just cause still on the line.